Empty Arms Syndrome is a phenomenon most often associated with stillbirth. However, as Corchele's story illustrates, feeling an ache to hold your baby is a very real feeling even if you deliver a breathing child.
Ten hours after delivering Breklyn by emergency cesarian, Corchele and her husband were faced with a loss no parent should ever experience. And, the fact that it was completely preventable only added to their heartache.
Corchele, and her former husband, turned their heartache into purpose after a chance gift helped transform Corchele's empty arms of suffering into arms of action and purpose.
Whether you have experienced infant/child loss yourself or not, I hope you listen to Corchele's transformational story of heartache to meaning and how her family continued to honor Breklyn in their lives.
I don't believe we ever fully understand the impact our presence has in others' lives, but as Breklyn's life shows, even a brief presence in the physical plane can create ripples.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
______
NEED HELP?
If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, there are free resources available HERE.
Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.
💛Would you like to Learn Your Energy Type? Free Quiz ➡️HERE! ⬅️
SUPPORT THE SHOW:
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
This episode is sponsored by Do Grief Differently™️, my twelve-week, one-on-one, in-person/online program for grievers who have suffered any type of loss to feel better. Click here to learn new tools, grief education, and the only evidence-based method for moving beyond the pain of grief.
Would you like to join the mission of Grieving Voices in normalizing grief and supporting hurting hearts everywhere? Become a supporter of the show HERE.
Empty Arms Syndrome is a phenomenon most often associated with stillbirth. However, as Corchele's story illustrates, feeling an ache to hold your baby is a very real feeling even if you deliver a breathing child.
Ten hours after delivering Breklyn by emergency cesarian, Corchele and her husband were faced with a loss no parent should ever experience. And, the fact that it was completely preventable only added to their heartache.
Corchele, and her former husband, turned their heartache into purpose after a chance gift helped transform Corchele's empty arms of suffering into arms of action and purpose.
Whether you have experienced infant/child loss yourself or not, I hope you listen to Corchele's transformational story of heartache to meaning and how her family continued to honor Breklyn in their lives.
I don't believe we ever fully understand the impact our presence has in others' lives, but as Breklyn's life shows, even a brief presence in the physical plane can create ripples.
RESOURCES:
CONNECT:
______
NEED HELP?
If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, there are free resources available HERE.
Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.
💛Would you like to Learn Your Energy Type? Free Quiz ➡️HERE! ⬅️
SUPPORT THE SHOW:
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA:
This episode is sponsored by Do Grief Differently™️, my twelve-week, one-on-one, in-person/online program for grievers who have suffered any type of loss to feel better. Click here to learn new tools, grief education, and the only evidence-based method for moving beyond the pain of grief.
Would you like to join the mission of Grieving Voices in normalizing grief and supporting hurting hearts everywhere? Become a supporter of the show HERE.
Victoria Volk 00:56
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. today. My guest is Corchele Smith, she is the founder of because of Breklyn , because of Breklyn is a nonprofit whose mission is to help families who experienced pregnancy infant and child loss. They do this by getting as many unstuffed bears into the hands of those families who experienced this devastating life event. Thank you for being here and for sharing your story today.
Corchele Smith 01:27
Thank you for having me. It's such an honor.
Victoria Volk 01:29
So, tell us about Breklyn .
Corchele Smith 01:33
Okay. So, Breklyn is my daughter who passed May 23 2016, 10 hours after birth. Her death was not expected we did not know anything was wrong, until we lost her heartbeat. And then we got we went into an emergency C section. And I think we knew more at that time after she was born that she would not be here in a physical form on Earth for much longer. So, we will not we the doctors and the staff did CPR. They did blood transfusions, plasma transfusions and kept her on life support until I was able to wake up from just the medications of the C section. And I was able to go see her. And then it wasn't very long after I had seen her that I I just knew I call it mother's intuition. I just knew that she was one I could tell she was suffering on life support. And I just knew that she wasn't supposed to be here. And so I asked them to pull her off of life support. And she actually lived for two hours off of life support and was more alive than she was in the eight hours on life support. She was cooing and she was just like, I call it talking. She was just talking the entire time. And it was the most beautiful two hours that I have ever been given.
Victoria Volk 03:29
I have three kids and I so much of your energy is spent right like growing this baby and you feel the baby and you know, you develop this bond that you haven't even met the child yet. But you have this bond. And that's something that we as women, I think not take for granted. I don't think that we necessarily take it for granted. But maybe we kind of do in a way. I don't know. But it's this beautiful gift that we're given that men will never understand. Right? They'll never get to experience it. And we have this bond well before they're even born and I just I can't imagine knowing that that's going to be taken away. And so my my heart goes out to you and your husband, your scale family do they did they find out what happened?
Corchele Smith 04:31
They did. There were rumors and stories, and I didn't get a full answer until my post op appointment. And we found out that when you, so we went into the hospital on a Friday, thinking that my water had broken and when they they swapped and tested, and it came back negative. Well, we found out later that it was a false negative, so my water had broken. And I'm not sure if you're familiar with this, but when you're when a mother is in labor for too long, she can start developing an infection. And that infection can get to the baby and cause problems. It's called choreo, amnio itis. And typically, the hospitals catch it, they give you an antibiotic and everything is great. However, because it was a false negative, and I was sent home on Friday, I was in labor on Friday, I was in labor on Saturday. And I was in labor all of Sunday until on Sunday, I was just like, something is not right. I have to go to the hospital again. And I was admitted Sunday night, because I was actually contracting, that test still said that my water had not broken. And so, you know, it's a test that is cheaper. So, insurances like it, it's quicker. So, the hospitals like it as well. And but it's not effective. It's not as effective as this other test that they could use. And so, we did finally find out my OB did, you know, kind of sit me down, and this is what happened. And, you know, just our his condolences, and, you know, everything that a doctor says during during that time. So, she did die from choreo amnio itis, from, from me being in labor for too long,
Victoria Volk 06:38
That's probably even more heartbreaking. I mean, I can't imagine hearing that because it could have been, it's so that's so preventable, right?
Corchele Smith 06:46
Yeah, it was it. Yeah, to just think if I would have I, I mean, I can't really say like, been more aggressive, because we rely so much on the medical field. But if maybe I would have been more aggressive and you, you need to test again, or I don't, I'm not going home or, you know, whatever, if I would have pushed to stay, she would be here today.
Victoria Volk 07:12
You touched on something that is very real, for us women and mothers is just the guilt. And
guilt is an intent to do harm. And I know you didn't intend to do harm, and you know, you didn't intend to do harm. But I imagine there was still grief there, obviously, because how do you not feel like if I would have done this, or I would have done that, just like you said, but how did that then? Like, how did you reconcile that? And with your spouse as well? Like how, you know, how did you get over that aspect?
Corchele Smith 07:49
I did it for the longest time. I, we him and I haven't talked much about like guilt, we try not to go down the rabbit hole of like, what if, but I always felt like this. This death, her death was somebody's fault. And I knew that I knew that the hospital didn't like mean to I knew my doctor didn't mean to. And so once you start crossing off all those people have, well, it's not their fault. It's not their fault. It came back on me any end even though I know now, and I knew then that it wasn't my fault. Who else was to blame but myself and so I just stayed in guilt for the longest time. And then I just I spot I spiraled out of control. Guilt turned into depression, depression turned into apathy, apathy, turned into wanting to be suicide or not wanting to be suicidal, but suicidal thoughts. And it was very, very dark for like two and a half years, because I just lived in those just low vibrational feelings for the longest time and I finally when I hit finally hit rock bottom and started healing that was like the first thing that I had to do was recognize that it wasn't my fault and rewrite that story and also forgive myself for the story that I had made up in my head. It was really just like writing the story of what I believed and how is this not true? How can we disprove this? Well, because none of this is true you you know you can't feel guilty anymore. You can't carry that guilt and shame around with you anymore. And that's how I truly started to to deal with it and cope with it. heal from it.
Victoria Volk 10:02
Did you have other children at the time, too?
Corchele Smith 10:04
Yeah. So Brocklin has an older sister. And at the time she was, let's see, she was four. And then later we had, she has a younger brother now, but we just had one at the time of Breklyn stuff.
Victoria Volk 10:22
And it's like trying to process what just happened. And all those feelings in the grief, and then still trying to like to put on the mom hat, while still having to address all the physical changes, of not having a baby, you know, you still have all those physical changes that you go through after giving, you know, having a child I can't imagine.
Corchele Smith 10:50
And then you also because I was full term, you also have the, you have to pack up the crib and the clothes and the dresser and that nursery, you thought you were bringing your baby home to needs to be taken down. Because unfortunately, you don't have a use for it anymore.
Victoria Volk 11:11
What did help you in those, I know you mentioned just really addressing that. It wasn't your fault, and really trying to forgive yourself and what helped you anything specific that helped you during those times?
Corchele Smith 11:26
In the beginning, my faith, and my belief in God helped me to, I guess, I was taught that everything happens for a reason. So in the beginning, that helped a ton, like she's with God, and I will see her again. And then when that wasn't enough, then I decided to, there was time for help. And I saw not a therapist, but I got a life coach. And with her, I really, really did the work and started. I mean, it was just like one thing after another we did. So, I did so much healing in such a short amount of time. I think I cried every single day for like those five months that we worked together because i was i Tears are shedding of emotion. And I was just shutting emotions left and right. And it's also healing for the heart to cry. And so, I was just and to be able to feel emotions as well, because with grief. I felt like I'd never experienced grief before. And so, I felt like there was a timeline on it. And so, you know, like a year and a half when I still miss her and I'm still grieving her. And I felt like I needed to cry. But I wouldn't give myself permission to cry. Because I didn't feel that that was appropriate. Like I would literally get inside my head PowerShell it's been a year and a half, you need to get over it you need to move on. This is ridiculous. You need to stop crying about it stop moping about it. So again, I changed that story. Here I am five years later, literally yesterday, I missed her. And so, I spent the amount of time I needed to cry and gave myself permission to do that. And then I I got on with my day my grief will never, I have learned now that there's no timeline for grief, my grief will never go away at all. And I'll continue to grieve. And so it's about giving myself permission to feel the emotions when I need to feel them. But also knowing that I can't stay in those emotions because it will bring me back down to those low vibrational feelings. And I like to live life in those high vibrational feelings.
Victoria Volk 14:06
So, tell us about the nonprofit. And when did that start?
Corchele Smith 14:12
That started a few weeks after Brooklyn died, my aunt gifted me and unstuffed bear. And she said, when you're ready, take it and stuff it. And I hope that this will bring a little bit of healing to you. And kind of like a memory of Breklyn and she suggested you know; you can put her own family pictures or whatever you want. There's no expectation for it. And I will be completely honest, I was like this. This is the dumbest thing. Like why and I think I was kind of angry too at life at the at the universe. Like I don't want a bear. I want my baby. And so, I put the bear away I've ever and I honestly had every intention of throwing it away. I'm not Not gonna lie. But just one day I was like, okay, I'll just give it a chance and see what happens. So, I stuffed it. And when I missed Brooklyn, I would hold it and lay. One night, I woke up with empty arm syndrome. And I picked up my bear who didn't have a name, that at the time, and I and I bounced her, and I hugged her and I seem to her I did everything with my bear that I would have done with Rachlin, and it brought so much healing to me that night. I just so much comfort. And at that moment, I was like, I don't care if people judge me at all. This is all I have of my baby. So, if I want to hold my bear, if I want to take my bear on vacation, I am going to and so I did and through time, we named her Breck, she's our Breck bear. And she goes everywhere with us. She's family now. I love her. So much. I love her as much as I love my children. And it was Breklyn Angel bursary was coming up her first angel bursary, and I wanted to do something to remember her I just didn't really know what I didn't feel like a balloon release was good enough. And somebody close to me suggested, just ask the question, what helped you the most, so far during your grief journey? And I was like, well, Breck did. Like, that's, that's a given. And so, we decided to ask, you know, Brooklyn's grandmas, and grandpas, and aunts, and uncles and cousins. That didn't, you know, because you can't buy her a birthday gift, would you consider donating $10 To buy a bear. And then we can give these bears to hospitals for future families that lose children, and they loved it. And so we did that the first year. And then we got really good feedback from the hospital that we donated to. And so we decided, you know, the second year, we would do it again. And this time, I kind of like posted on social media a little bit that I have some friends also donate. And then you know, the third year happened again. And this time, I actually had friends ask if I was going to do bears, again, as a couple of people kind of like these bear things. And the more bears that we got out, you don't hear from the families every time somebody gets a bear. But we had heard of one or two stories by then and, and these parents were so so thankful for the bears. And so we just kind of continued to do it until we were like, um, we're, we're basically running a nonprofit. Why don't we just continue this? Why don't we make it official? What's stopping us? Like, we're having the best time doing it. It's it’s the best way to remember Brooklyn. Like we as how how do I say this, like, we can still parent her and be her mom and dad through this foundation, she her memory is still alive with every bear that we give. And so it just, we didn't plan it. It just kind of fell into our laps, and we ran with it. And we've been really, really successful with it up to this point. And we can't we can't wait to see what else is is in store for because of Brooklyn.
Victoria Volk 18:54
I love that story. I love how it came just organically just and it I felt I can just picture it when you're sharing with this bear. And in that moment and how much healing it did bring you I can just I could just feel I get goosebumps actually when you share that. So, confirmation chills. Yeah, and I think too, it's like, it's so easy to shut off ourselves or like stop ourselves from allowing our hearts to go there to like to even attempt to feel some sort of connection. And that's probably really what helped you establish and really feel that connection to her even though she's not here physically, right?
Corchele Smith 19:41
Yeah. In fact, just the other day I had somebody ask is all the pain and suffering that you continue to do because I I will hear of stories, and it will trigger me. And so, we'll go through the motions again and they asked, is that all worth it just because just for us? nonprofit. And, you know, I said absolutely, absolutely, it is worth it because I'm helping so many families and it's not even me. It's, it's Breckland, like Brocklin is helping so many families and these bears are bringing such comfort to these families in such healing. And I just I, once it's started, I can't imagine giving it up. And I have felt more close to her than ever. The more work I do on the nonprofit, the closer I feel to her, so although I do get triggered, I, I've never felt closer to her in my life. And it's I wouldn't want to go back to waking up every day feeling so disconnected to from her. And just relying on my faith of, oh, well, I'll see her again. Now I wake up every day, feeling solely connected to her. And it's beautiful. I don't have to rely on will one day I'll see her again. Because I can feel her every day. She's in my life, every single day. And so yes, all of that pain and suffering of the few stories that affect me is totally worth. Totally worth it.
Victoria Volk 21:35
I know, too, that you're our our you're a Reiki Master, correct? And so we can speak a lot about the energy of grief and all of that, but I think it's a perspective of understanding that you can choose to be in that low vibrational experience in in your day, which can be that is valid, right, those feelings of deep sorrow and just feeling really low. They're valid feelings. And you need to let express those some in some way. But to be able to also feel connected is healing in and of itself.
Corchele Smith 22:20
Yeah. And I mean, going back to what you said those low vibrational feelings when they come up, you really essentially, I mean, just speaking from, you know, the perspective of Reiki and energy. You really have to feel those and let those out because then they become trapped. And I mean, you know, and I know trapped emotions, then walk our chakras, or get stored somewhere and start causing issues and they cause unbalanced and stuff. And so yes, absolutely feel that deep sorrow, that deep agony when it comes up. Don't Don't trap it into your body, because that doesn't do any that doesn't do any good.
Victoria Volk 23:04
So, I'm curious, did the Reiki come after that? After the loss of Breklyn?
Corchele Smith 23:06
It did. Yeah.
Victoria Volk 23:09
How did that come about?
Corchele Smith 23:13
Um, I don't even know. I don't think I even remember because it was only just a couple years ago. And really, I started with energy. And then energy, then opened up my perspective and broaden my horizon of the chakras. And I was like, oh, well, what is this teach me more about the chakras? And then I thought like, it was just beautiful, like, oh, okay, so, you know, like, third eye chakra throat chakra if I need to public speak, I'll just like, rely on my, on my throat chakra. And then somebody was like, well, they can be blocked, or they can be closed off. And I'm like, well, okay, well teach me more. And so then I, I would, I would learn more about how they can be closed. And then and then I asked the question, how, how do you activate them? If they're off and blocked? How do you unblock them? And how do you activate them? And they're like, oh, Reiki, okay, will somebody please teach me what Reiki is as well. And so once I started to learn about it, I was like, and I honestly got certified or signed up, because really, honestly, I didn't, I didn't want to like do Reiki on other people at all. I just wanted to do it, like have the knowledge of it and and be able to utilize it myself. And those close around me, but the universe had different plans for that. And so that's originally why I signed up because I just wanted to be knowledgeable about it. I wanted to be able to do it if I needed it. And then it was like, two weeks before I graduated. The download came in Have you need To use this on clients, you need to practice this on, you know, the public or whoever comes to you. And I was like, Okay, well, I guess I'm gonna be doing this then. And so, again, just an organic snowball. Definitely, I had no idea what it was I didn't even know like about energy worker, anything before Brocklin. And it's just since then, it's just been one download after another. And it's been beautiful, really.
Victoria Volk 25:37
That has been my experience to actually I think the, the, the theme that I'm connecting between your story and mine is, once you and I, through our grief and everything, once we started to actually process and heal, it opened up all sorts of doors and opportunities, and really, probably even more so connected are each of us individually. And I think this is what happens. I think this naturally, I'm really interested in studying this more in Grievers who get to the other side of it because I feel like once you actually process grief, like truly address it, you really get in tune with your intuition. I think you are taught I think grief itself is is just like the I describe it like a veil that covers your face. You don't see yourself clearly in the mirror. You can't see others clearly. You don't see situations clearly for what they are. It's you're stuck in your head. You can't tap into the heart like they're like, that's really I speak a lot about that stuff. And yeah, I to it was like What's Reiki? I kept hearing about this Reiki thing, and I've heard that so many times, like how did you get into Reiki? I don't know. It just found me. And I got every Reiki Master I know is like, oh just kind of kept knocking on the door, you know, and it's you know, you're gonna answer like what you know.
Corchele Smith 27:09
Reiki found me. I didn't find it.
Victoria Volk 27:11
Exactly I yeah, I think that's, that is the common thing I hear most often from other Reiki practitioners is Reiki phone me. Yeah. And it's the gift that keeps on giving. Really. So, I'm curious then like through what has changed in your life with your grief, since introducing Reiki.
Corchele Smith 27:39
Oh, everything my entire life has completely changed because I don't know about you. But it didn't stop at Reiki. For me. I wanted to know more. And so, I'm currently in school to be a crystal healer, through Reiki to incorporate, like, be actually certified to incorporate crystals. Um, and so I would have never done that. If it wasn't for Reiki, I would have never done Reiki if it wasn't for Breklyn . Um, I also three through coaching, I have found being coached I should say, through being coached, I have found a great love and respect for coaches and those who coach and so I have also stepped into that role, as well. And I have I stepped away from religion, but I'm more spiritual and connected than I have ever been in my entire life. Looking back at the before me of Breklyn I can honestly say I don't know who that is, because I can I live completely different now completely different. And even just those who knew me before and after, like they've said the same thing. You're just, you're just completely different now, and like I feel like I keep repeating myself, but it's just, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing and kind of going back to what you said before grief. I really do feel like that something tragic has to happen in somebody's life for them to really start to connect or want to connect with their heart and with source divine God universe, however that looks like for you. You really, and it doesn't have to be death. It can be a tragic loss of a job that causes grief, it can be loss of a pet that that is grief as Well, so however grief comes to you I, I really feel like we as humans have to hit that those low vibrational feelings of grief and go through those to really connect because I think you can agree. We, we can't pull out of those low vibrational feelings by ourselves, you. And like I said, its whatever source looks like for you whatever higher power looks like for you, that pulls you out whether that's connecting to yourself connecting to your heart connecting to the Divine, whatever that is. You can't get out of you can't get out of those alone. You just in my opinion, you just can't get out of those low vibrational feelings by yourself. You have to have something to connect to to really pull you out.
Victoria Volk 31:02
Yeah, we don't heal in isolation.
Corchele Smith 31:03
No, no.
Victoria Volk 31:04
There's a reason why when I started before, I started this podcast, I had a vision for the artwork, and it was beautifully created for me by an illustrator and she just brought my vision to life, but it's me on an island with a megaphone. It's like, you know, that is grief. That is how you feel as a Griever you feel like you're alone. You feel like you're screaming, dude, like you want to scream for the rooftops, but no one's gonna hear you anyway. And you feel like you already are screaming and no one's hearing you anyway, right? It's it's a very isolating feeling. And because of all these lessons that were taught as children, no fault to the parents, it's just this generational pattern that repeats, we grow up believing things about grief, being you know, grieve alone, is one of the myths of grief. So I'm curious to learn. What were the stories and beliefs and patterns and things that you learned or what in your upbringing? You said you hadn't really experienced grief before Brooklyn? What was your childhood like that shaped?
Corchele Smith 32:20
I grew up in a in a really religious LDS family. And we just, I grew up with that knowledge of God and, and what the LDS religion looks like, and their beliefs. And that's, those were my beliefs as well. And, you know, I had my great grandpa's die and distant aunts, and uncles die as a child, but nothing. I never lost any of my grandma's grandpa's. I, I was blessed. I didn't, I didn't lose a parent at a young age or a sibling, any young age, I just, we didn't I didn't grow up with pets. And so, I didn't have to go through that. You know, I mean, I had goldfish, but they last all of five days. And then you go out and get new goldfish. And so that that wasn't grief, I just go get new goldfish. And I, it's not that I was sheltered from grief. I just it, I guess I was just never given the opportunity, if that's what you want to call it to experience, grief. And because of that, my, my parents didn't have the opportunity to teach about grief, either other than what you learn at church, or, you know, through the scriptures. And so, it. It was, I mean, I'm very blessed that I didn't have to experience that. As a child. I mean, there's pros and cons to both. But yeah, I didn't, I didn't have to deal with it until Brooklyn. And I think Brooklyn was really the one who showed it for a lot of my family. Like, I think it I mean, I speak for them, but I think it was the first loss that my mom had to deal with. That was very close to her. It was the first loss that my fiance had to deal with, like he hadn't ever lost anybody either. Through his childhood, it was the first loss that like my siblings, also experienced as well. So, so her dying, it was really the first time that somebody like really close to us had died. And so, we were all of us were just kind of thrown into it. And we I mean, we all have different stories we've developed we've all grieved, grieve differently. But yeah, we just never are childhood was, I like to say like anybody else's you just sports in school and a fairly good household, my parents were split. And, you know, both households were just very religious, and we never had to deal with grief at all. Two parents were divorced. They were Yes. And I, it's funny, you bring that up because I didn't feel a certain type of way, I am the oldest of three kids. And my sister was very, very young when they split. My brother was like, also young as well. So, we didn't really feel grief that our parents split, at least not in the present. Now that I've done some inner child work, work on myself, that has actually come up, their divorce has actually come up. And I and I realized that I was experienced experiencing grief. But I didn't know what that was. Nor did I know how to express it. And so, I bother with it, I bottled it up, which goes back to those trapped emotions, they got trapped in my body until here I am 25 years later from their divorce, and that divorce has come up in my inner child healing, and I've had to heal from that. And so that was grief. But I didn't know it. And I didn't express it either. And so, I kept it. I kept it in. I didn't know it was grief until 25 years later.
Victoria Volk 36:53
I was gonna say, because you'd be the first podcast guest that never had any grief, or to a loss. And I thought, no, it gotta be something.
Corchele Smith 37:03
There definitely was, but it got trapped and didn't come up until 25 years later.
Victoria Volk 37:09
So, I also want to ask my curiosity. So, if you don't want to talk about it, absolutely, just let me know. But so, your older daughter? Was that a relationship that ended?
Corchele Smith 37:24
It is. Her dad and I split when she was about almost six months old?
Victoria Volk 37:31
Do you feel like a part of your experience as a child of divorced parents has that? Do you connect any of that experience to the split with that relationship? Or? And also, to like, what, how do you feel like that impacted you? Because then you became a single mom. And I mean, surely there's grief in that I don't want to imply that there was.
Corchele Smith 38:01
Um, the relationship needed to end is very toxic. And it was safer for us to be away. And again, I didn't know what grief was. And so, you know, I was I was sad, but I was more focused on Okay, I have this baby girl that I have to provide for. And so, I was focused on getting a job getting back into school getting us stabilized, and I didn't have time for grief, I didn't have time to like, think about the past and how I'm so sad that it it didn't work out. I didn't I didn't have time for any of that I was more future focused. How do I how do I provide for for this baby that is mine and give her the best life so that we don't end up on the streets. And so we don't have to live on the streets. And it? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Looking back. There is there is probably some trapped emotions there that have not gotten brought up yet through my healing. But other things have other emotions, bitterness, anger, have have come up. And so I think really after saying it and talking about it, I think I just kept on my emotions just inside unless they were happy. That is one thing that I can say is that I think has to do with religion. And I think it has to do with part of how I grew up. You don't express negative feelings. You just you have to always be happy. You just have to have Be happy and positive and No, no, you don't have bad days you don't. You don't cry, you don't get depressed, you don't feel those negative things. And so if it was a negative feeling like grief is I, I didn't have time to feel it. And I didn't dare feel it, because I didn't know that it was okay to feel negative feelings. And so I just always focused on the positive of everything. And that's how I was after breath and die to like, I don't, I can't feel these negative feelings. I gotta like, be positive about it. And what's the lesson to be learned in this? And how do we make this tragedy into something beautiful. And that's really how because of Brooklyn started is that it was like that lesson that beautiful thing. And I think that's why I spiraled into those negative vibrational feelings. Because I wasn't allowing myself to feel those negative feelings today. Absolutely. If I just fill in it, I am going to feel it and it has shaped me how I parent my children to I do not ever want them to grow up thinking that they can't experience anger or grief or sadness or anything like that. I want them to be able to feel everything feel all the emotions that life has. And so yeah, it's really just shaped shaped me into the mother that I am. It's an evolution, right? It's yeah, yeah. ever evolving.
Victoria Volk 41:53
Were there any like unhelpful, or hurtful things that you could share with people to help educate them? On, you know, things that were said to you, because I really very much this podcast is about sharing stories. And it's also very much about education, too.
Corchele Smith 42:15
Yeah, there's a few things that come to mind. The first being I had, I'm sure she meant well, but I had a dear friend, come to Brooklyn's viewing. And I wish that I was making this up. But she asked me when I was going to have another baby. Right then in there. And I was like, What? What? What, what are you talking? I was just like, Oh, okay. And I'm not speechless very often. But I was definitely speechless. So don't ask when they're going to have another baby. Like, at any point, really. They they wanted a baby. And so, asking them when they're going to have another one is literally a reminder that they don't have that one. And also, if those parents are blessed enough to have another baby, because, I mean, infertility is also very real thing. And so if the parents are blessed with another baby, that doesn't mean that that baby now replaces their dead baby. And I've had so many people, unfortunately, a lot of family that I've had to kind of put in their place and educate them on this is so many people after my son was born, and Brooklyn's younger brother, after he was born, so many people said, oh, like, now you should be healed. Now you're better now. And I had some people say like, Oh, he's he takes Brooklyn's place. Like, that's great. And I was like, no, nobody takes her place. I'm literally just adding a child into my family. That doesn't mean we forget about Brooklyn. And that definitely doesn't mean that I'm healed. And he, he has brought not for me, he didn't bring healing for me. But he brought a ton of healing for my fiance a ton of healing for him like that's what he needed to heal is was was a baby, and that's fine. We all heal differently. Personally, for me, that is not how I healed in fact, I between my suicidal thoughts, and then all my trapped emotions that I was feeling. I had postpartum depression really, really bad after him. And so, you combine those two things, and I I was a wreck and so it didn't bring any healing for me, but it spiraled me into wanting to get healed because I hated living with all of that. And so, yes, another piece of advice is, if a rainbow baby comes along, that baby is not taking the place of their dead baby. There is also I tell people over and over, there's no timeline for grief, ever, ever, ever. I am five years into this, and I still grieve. Frequently, I and I always will, because she is not here in the way that I want her here, meaning physical form. And so, and that's, and that's hard. I think. We, as humans, when we lose something physical, it's hard for us because we can't hug them when we want to kiss them when we want to. And so it's, it's very hard for us to understand, if you believe in energies or spirits that they're still here. It's, it's just very, very hard to have an expectation of having Brocklin here physically, but accepting the fact that she's here, energetically, instead. So, you know, there is, even though she is here, I'm still going to grieve the physical form of her for the rest of my life.
Victoria Volk 46:49
Well, when we talk about grief would actually grief is it's, you know, loss of hopes, dreams and expectations. Yeah. And anything you wish would have been different, better or more. And with that, each passing birthday and the milestones that come, you're going to feel that sadness, and that's okay. It's, but if it's crippling you, if it's this crippling sorrow, if it's this crippling experience, where you can't function for days at a time, or weeks at a time, or months at a time, you know, and then they have all these other labels for like, complicated grief, or, you know, they put all these labels on it. It's just grief. It's just grief. It is, it's great. You don't need a bunch of fancy names and labels, and you don't need to pop a pill for grief either. And I know, I don't know about you, but I know you touched on postpartum grief, and postpartum is like a cocktail for feeling like you are on a one-way ticket to out of here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And was your experience that you got a prescription for that?
Corchele Smith 48:04
No, I am very, I don't like the pharmaceutical. I just tried to stay away from meds I be I don't know where this came from. But. But since I was little, I have always believed that you should not put anything into your body. That is not like, I want to I don't want to say natural, but like medications, I didn't even like taking ibuprofen, because I knew that my body was strong enough to heal my headache. But if I gave it ibuprofen, then it would start becoming weak. And so when, when Brocklin died, the surgeon because I actually had a midwife, and so he couldn't do the surgery, we had to have another doctor come in. And so that doctor actually handed me like a prescription for antidepressants. And I was like, I don't want this, like, I don't want these names, like you're going to need them. And I was like, I don't want them. Because I've seen what they do to my close friends and family and it numbs them. And they walk around on autopilot like a zombie and I, I don't want to live like that. And, and I'm only 26 years old. I don't want to be on antidepressants for the rest of my life. And so I wanted to go through the waves first, and then if it didn't work, then I'd go get on pills and with postpartum, the same, the same thing. And but instead I was too ashamed or too afraid to tell somebody that I was experiencing postpartum because I was afraid that that reflected that I was a bad mother, and that I would give my children taken away. So, I, I hit it, I was a completely different person. When I stepped out my front door than I was in, in my home, and my fiance, I mean, bless him. He wasn't educated enough on postpartum. And so, he didn't pick up on anything. He just thought, like, I was just moody all the time. And, and so I, again, I didn't see a doctor, I didn't get medicated for it. I just, it was just a cocktail for a one-way ticket to get out of here. And my coach was like, my last hope I was like, I can't go to a therapist, because I know by law, they have to, like, report certain things. So I wanted somebody who was safe, who knew nothing about me, who also wasn't under contract to report certain things to really like, just let it all out. And, and somebody who like, again, my biggest thing was like, nonjudgement, because I was I like, had so many skeletons and so many demons that I felt like I was hiding, but that I wanted to tell somebody, but I didn't feel safe enough. And so it was my life coach that I, I ended up, like telling her everything, all the things and shit. Like I said, it really, she really, really helped me. And again, she's not certified to write a prescription. And so I knew that she'd actually made me deal with it, instead of putting me on antidepressants, which is what I wanted. And it was my last hope, I'll be really honest, it was, it was my last cry for help. She was my last cry for help. If that didn't work, I was going straight to my doctor, and I was going to get on meds. But I wanted, I am so stubborn, that I wanted to make sure that I tried everything before I got on meds. So no, thankfully, I did not have to take any prescriptions for any of that.
Victoria Volk 52:13
I lasted a week on it. And I just I intuitively knew to it's like, there has to be a way I can get beyond this. That doesn't require me to drug myself. Right, like, yeah. Do you see? I just want to point this out. Do you see how what you intuitively felt or believed as a child has come full circle for you with Reiki?
Corchele Smith 52:41
Yeah, it's like, it's so weird to like, I'm just like, really, like it's just been. So I guess I wouldn't call it weird. It's just been so interesting.
Victoria Volk 52:56
I had interviewed a medium. And she talked about the seven-year cycle. Like that we have the seven-year cycle of life, like every seven years, it's like we kind of get pushed into this process or pushed into a situation or pushed into an experience that gets us to another level in our lives are, you know, to help us evolve, I suppose, in a way. And I know you mentioned in your notes that you also in top on top of the life coach, you did have a medium reading that seemed to help you and regardless of what you believe, I've personally had one medium reading, and she was actually the medium that will be also coming on the podcast. But can you share how that helped you?
Corchele Smith 53:52
Yeah, it was three months after I had gotten my coach. And I felt like so we had worked through like forgiving myself through letting the guilt and shame go. But it kept coming up. I felt like and I felt like I couldn't forgive myself. Because then it meant forgetting about her. And so I needed a way to connect with her. Like I was like Breklyn I need you to send me a sign that it's okay for me to move forward. And that you know that I'm not forgetting about you that it's okay to be happy. Because I want to be happy. But I'm afraid that if you see me happy, that means that I've forgotten about you. So I just I just need this and now I was waiting for like I don't I don't know what I was waiting for a billboard or something and it wasn't coming and so I was like well Who, who connects with with spirits and my stepdads sister in law, so my, my step aunt, she is actually a medium. And so she was in my childhood a lot, but we fell off. And so I knew that like people could connect with, with the other side and with spirits and stuff. And so I found a medium. And, but I was very, very hesitant. I thought they were fraud. And so I shut down all of my social media at the time, we didn't have a website. And so I knew she couldn't look like there. And I, I was like, if, if this is going to be legit, I'm going to make sure everything is locked. Like you can't see anything, you don't know anything about my story. And I also did via online, because I had this idea in my head that people will play off of your emotions, like when you nod your head, like she'll just the medium will just keep going that way. And so essentially, I kind of went into it, wanting an answer, but not believing I would get an answer because they're all a fraud, right? Like, that's totally what I thought. And so we did, we did it online. And it was, it was the most beautiful thing. She said things in there that nobody would ever know. In fact, she brought up my suicide attempt that I attempted by myself that I hadn't told anybody, no, not one. So not even my fiance knew about it. And she brought it up. And I was like, there’s no way like this is real real. And she brought up other things that nobody would know, at all. And so by the time we're halfway through, I'm like, this is legit, and I'm already balling. And then at the very end it, they talked about when Brooklyn came to her, she wasn't a baby, she was a woman. And she described this beautiful woman. And so from that I have like, pictured in my head, what she looks like. And I've had other experiences with this woman. But also, like at the end, she said, Breklyn has the message of she wants you to be happy again. She knows the pain and the sorrow and the guilt that you've been carrying for so long. It's not your fault at all. It's okay to forgive yourself. And then she said, Mom, I just want you to be happy, I want you to go back to enjoying life. And there was more in the reading. But at that moment, when she said that, I fell to my knees, and I just sobbed. And I just thank you, thank you, thank you. And I like naturally I just like let my hands out like just like, down though. And it felt like lead bullets just coming from my fingertips all of that guilt that I've been carrying for so long. We're like tripping out of my fingertips, my shoulders just felt so much lighter I I could breathe for like the first time in four years. My whole being just like got so much lighter. And so that reading with that medium one changed my opinion on mediums. They are legit. And to it helped helped me evolve it, it took me to the next level of healing, and I still refer to it almost monthly, and I still get a new message out of it.
Victoria Volk 59:14
I'm glad that that experienced that you had that experience. And again, like I had a really wonderful experience as well. Most of my healing came from going through Grief Recovery. And then I had a really, I've had a lot of healing come through with Reiki two from personally, often when I least expected and I'm sure you've probably experienced the same like that's always works isn't that I didn't expect like that was out of left field. And so not everyone is going to necessarily have that type of experience. Right? It's so individual because grief is individual. Right?
Corchele Smith 59:54
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean for anybody listening like me There were a ton of things that killed me medium ship was one of the things I can't promise, but you know, it will heal. It will heal you; everybody will heal differently.
Victoria Volk 1:00:11
But the thing is, is you have hope you have hope of healing. And as long as you have hope. You're not feeling like you have a one-way ticket out of here.
Corchele Smith 1:00:25
Yeah. And also believe, I mean, hoping, hoping is one thing, but when you take it to believing, as well, when you really believe that you're going to get out of this, you will, as long as you do the work, you will get out of it. And that's the disabled time.
Victoria Volk 1:00:44
That's the distinction though. To go from hope to believe you have to take action, you have to move your feet you have to book with the life coach, you have to like actually ask for help. Right?
Corchele Smith 1:00:56
Yeah. Oh, yeah. You just you have to take that step. Even if it's just a baby step. Continue to take those baby steps. You. You really you have to do the work to get out of it.
Victoria Volk 1:01:11
I'll take that is your one tip. Yeah. Do you have another one? You'd like to share on that note?
Corchele Smith 1:01:20
As far as just hit like, you really have to do the work.
Victoria Volk 1:01:23
One tip for other hurting hearts.
Corchele Smith 1:01:27
Yeah, I mean, I would say that's like my one up. And I mean, I kind of mentioned it before, just believe that you will get through it. Believe that you will.
Victoria Volk 1:01:41
Was there any one piece of advice that you received? And when it was really the darkest of days for you?
Corchele Smith 1:01:49
Nothing comes to mind. Like, I don't feel like anything stuck. Really, no, no advice or anything. I I really, really held on to my religious beliefs of that I'll see her again. And so, it was it was really about one religious belief that that I would see her, again, is what I is what I really held on to you. But there was really no advice that came from anybody.
Victoria Volk 1:02:28
Do you feel like that one feeling though, that you will see her again, that belief? Like I'm just saying in general for Grievers. The thought that comes to my mind when I hear you say that is that if I have this really strong belief that I will see my loved one again, it can actually be taken really, to the extreme of I want to see them today, where you're then feeling suicidal, where you're then like, I can't take this anymore. I want to be with you today. I want to be with you now. And I just want to highlight if you're having those thoughts. That's that's grief that still can be helped. Right?
Corchele Smith 1:03:17
Yeah, it can be and don't be afraid to ask for help, though. at all you can, once you are there. Do you need help? Whether that's professional help, or holistic healing help.
Victoria Volk 1:03:30
I'm curious, as you were going through this loss of your daughter, your fiance, like, how did you navigate that? I mean, it's one thing to like, go through it as an individual as a as a mother, and then individually as the Father and but to was it like this dance between that you just kind of had to like,
Corchele Smith 1:03:53
It was so awkward. Like, because I would put on my brave face for him. Because I wanted to make sure that I was the strong one. And I would I mean; I wasn't even dealing with my grief behind closed doors. But I didn't dare grieve in front of him because I wanted to be the strong one. And he did the same thing. He didn't dare grieve in front of me, because he wanted to be the strong one. And so we I know that he did, he did deal with it behind closed doors, because I remember one day like asking, do you even miss her? They didn't even affect you. Do you even care that she died? And he's he has never raised his voice. I mean, he got very stern and was like you don't know how many times I've cried in the car by myself to the office or from the office? Because I miss her so much. much. And that's when he told me, I don't grieve in front of you because I want to be strong for you. And I was, I was like, Oh, okay. And then I read a book called, oh, man, something along the lines of like, couples communication after the loss of a child. I will have to you can put it in your like podcast notes, I'll get the official name for that book. But I'm, I'm pretty sure that's what it's called. I read that book, because I felt like he wasn't grieving the way I would expect him to like moping around crying all the time. So that's where that idea came from, oh, he doesn't care. He didn't miss her. Anyway, that book saved our relationship. It not only taught me that it that people grieve differently. It also taught me to ask him questions about that, which is where those questions came from? Because I was concerned, like, do you even do you even miss her? And so it really, and we still, to this day, we still do this? Like I will. And well, let me not get ahead of myself. But to this day, we still do that. I will still sometimes ask him. Hey, do you miss her? Yes, I miss her every day, you know? Or if I feel like like when her Angel bursary just passed in May, I asked him how he was that a hey, check in with me. How are you feeling? How are you doing? What do you need? What can I give you? And he's very, he's very honest, and he'll reciprocate those words. How are you feeling? What do you need? How can I support you? And I'm very honest, with my answers, him and I both remember her differently, I find so much comfort going to the cemetery. He does not. And I have learned that is okay, he doesn't feel connected to her there. As I do. Instead, he he's just the cutest he takes our breath. He's an avid soccer fan, and an avid Seattle Sounders fan. So anytime they play, he wrapped a Seattle Sounders scarf around Breck and him and Breck stay on the couch and watch the game together. And that is how he feels connected to her. Whereas me like, I mean, I kind of laugh about it, because I'm like, that's like, the silliest thing. But for him, that's where he feels connected. And, and it's okay, that he remembers her that way. And I remember her a different way, I'm very involved in the nonprofit, it helps me feel connected to her. It kind of stings a little bit for him. And so he, he's involved, but he's not as involved as I think a lot of people would expect him to be. Because he's communicated to me, it's kind of a little hard, kind of triggers me a little bit, and I respect that. Okay. I, you know, I don't want to trigger you. And so I really, essentially run it by myself. And then he helps, where needed. And he helps a ton as far as like financial contribution, and a lot of our money goes, goes into it. And so he works hard to make sure that not only can our household and our, and, you know, whatever we like to do traveling or Season Passes elsewhere, not only can he support us in that way, but he can also keep that foundation running, if a grant doesn't come through, or if a donation doesn't come through, we can still keep our bears, we can still keep giving our bears and so that's that's kind of his, his thing. And we each have our different, our different things.
Victoria Volk 1:09:17
It's beautiful. And that says a lot about how far probably your relationship has grown and evolved. And I just think it really is about giving permission. Right to is. Yeah, thank you for sharing that resource. So, I will put that in the show notes once you have the link and everything.
Corchele Smith 1:09:36
Yeah, I will. I will find it. I know exactly where it's at. So, I will find it for you.
Victoria Volk 1:09:41
So, what would you say that your grief has taught you?
Corchele Smith 1:09:48
Oh, wow. I don't think I've ever reflected on that. I think it's taught me really just how short life is how much We take life for granted. It's, it's taught me how to be a better person, and how to be more compassionate, and kind, it's taught me that you have no idea what the person next to what your neighbor is going through what the person in the checkout line is going through, and just to be kind to just to all human beings, because you have no idea what they're going through. Grief has also taught me how to be present. In the moment, I think that's the biggest thing that it has taught me how to just be present in everything that I do.
Victoria Volk 1:11:00
One thing that came to my mind is, through your story is even after even only living for 10 hours, the impact her life has had. Right? It's, so we have this one life we are given. And even if you think you're in your, let's say, you're in your 20s, or 40s, or you're 14, or 84, I don't care what it is, your life has meaning in it has an impact on people, you are impacting people, whether you know it or not. If a baby, a little baby can touch so many people, your life, your husband, you know, your fiance, your siblings, like the grandparents, like 10 hours, and the ripples of her life with the foundation, you know, the nonprofit.
Corchele Smith 1:12:05
I mean, and not only that, but she has impacted the way hospitals do intake now. Because we told them, they knew that they messed up. And so they said no more. With this test, we're going to more expensive tests, because we can't have that happen again, that was their fault. That was the hospital's fault that that happened. It's their fault that she's not here. I mean, it's nobody's fault. But you know what I mean? And so they've changed that. And I can't tell you, I'm still so close to all the nurses that were there when when Brooklyn was born. And I can't tell you how many times a nurse has been like Breckland saved another baby today. The test came back, a test comes back negative, they do the other tests just to make sure. And some of those tests have come back positive. And so they the whole intake process here in Utah has changed because of her death. And so yeah, look at look at that impact that she's had look, all the lives that she has saved so many parents who don't have to go through this pain because of her. I, I mean, she's just impacted. Everybody who knows her is impacted has been impacted.
Victoria Volk 1:13:30
That's like, why isn't that just a rule across the country?
Corchele Smith 1:13:38
While we're while I'm hoping that one day it will be?
Victoria Volk 1:13:43
Yeah. Wow. Is that okay, can I ask? I'm gonna like really change gears, but I'm just curious because I was Group B strep, positive. Is that the same thing? Or is that different?
Corchele Smith 1:13:53
Okay. No, because I was negative.
Victoria Volk 1:13:58
Okay, cuz for anyone who doesn't know maybe if a man you know, I don't know, women went away there. But groupie struck, you know, when you get pregnant and they test you for group you strap and if you're positive and you go into, once you're once you go into labor, they give you antibiotics, if it's been so many hours or whatever. And with my first child, I was actually it was he was born 12 hours after my water broke. Oh, so any like, almost to the minute so and on May 24.
Corchele Smith 1:14:29
Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
Victoria Volk 1:14:33
If you would have bent just a little bit later I would have had it probably would have had us a Syrian but but yeah, so I was just curious because they give antibiotics for that.
Corchele Smith 1:14:43
They're different.
Victoria Volk 1:14:46
Well, and what an incredible ripple creator she has too.
Corchele Smith 1:14:52
I know. I love it. I am very, very proud to be her mother.
Victoria Volk 1:14:56
It's amazing. What gives you the most joy now and hope for the future.
Corchele Smith 1:15:02
My family brings me the most joy, like my my kids bring me so much joy. And just knowing I just have there's not one specific thing that brings hope for the future. I just, I just feel it in my, in my soul in my Sacral Chakra I just feel just hope. And as long as I feel good sense I you know, I know about the chakras and stuff if my heart and or I'm not my sacral, my solar plexus as long as my solar plexus and my heart. Both feel good. I know I'm on the right path. And that is what gives me hope. As long as those two are just aligned so well and open and communicating well. I know I'm on the right path. Once one shifts or changes, I know something needs to shift or change in my life.
Victoria Volk 1:16:16
Amazing. And if you want to learn about Reiki a little bit more, do you..
Corchele Smith 1:16:22
Contact Victoria! you do it too?
Victoria Volk 1:16:26
I do. But well, because you don't do distance sessions. Is that correct?
Corchele Smith 1:16:30
Yeah, correct. I only do in-person sessions.
Victoria Volk 1:16:36
Well, I will put a link to your website.
Corchele Smith 1:16:40
Only for because of Breklyn , all of my services and stuff you can just find on Instagram, I'll give you all of that information. So, you would just message me for I mean, whatever you need, I do do trauma work and inner child healing and Shadow Work through zoom. And so I'll outdistance those. So, if any of your listeners need some inner child healing or shadow work done, I can I can do that.
Victoria Volk 1:17:19
Okay, and we'll put all of her contact information in the show notes. Yeah. And is there anything else? You would well share your handle for anyone listening? You're on Instagram? Where can they find you?
Corchele Smith 1:17:32
Oh, I'm on Instagram at me personally, I'm on Instagram @corchelesmith. And then because of Brooklyn is on Instagram @becauseof Breklyn. And you can find my website and also the link to my nonprofit on Instagram. It's LinkedIn like my personal profile as well. And then because of Brooklyn, www.becauseofbreklyn .org is our website.
Victoria Volk 1:18:10
Do you have any events or anything that you have coming down the pike about for the foundation?
Corchele Smith 1:18:17
We do not have any events currently right now we just closed like our huge event that we do yearly. And so right now, we are donating bears to hospitals. However, if any of your listeners work at a hospital or need a bear or want bears brought into the hospital, or whatever it is contact me because there are a ton of, I know that there are a ton of hospitals that we're not in and we ship them all over. All over. We can ship them. So, if you need a bear, contact us if you've you know if you've had a loss of any kind of Nina bear. And then also, if you want your local hospital to have bears just shoot us a message and let us know. But yeah, and we'll post all of our events on our on our webpage but for right now it's it's donation. Period. Summers, we usually is when we usually will donate everything and we like to take family family trips. So when we, for example, we were just in Vegas, because we service the hospitals in Nevada. And so it makes a fun little trip we really like to meet like the hospitals that we're going to but sometimes that's not always possible and we have to ship them so yeah,
Victoria Volk 1:19:48
Maybe, just maybe I will get you to North Dakota.
Corchele Smith 1:19:51
Maybe you are the person to suggest that in like two weeks like North Dakota But Dakotas. Yeah, they're like, the Dakotas. And I'm like, I mean, I've thought about every state, but I don't really know. I don't really have any hookups there.
Victoria Volk 1:20:13
I'll see what I can do.
Corchele Smith 1:20:15
Just shoot me a message and the hospitals close to you, and we'll get in there and come out.
Victoria Volk 1:20:21
Yeah, I do. I do have a contact at one. Yeah, I yep, I do.
Corchele Smith 1:20:26
Great. That sounds like a plan. Look at the universe is working already.
Victoria Volk 1:20:31
Yes. Anything else you would like to share?
Corchele Smith 1:20:34
No, I've, I feel like I have said a lot. Thank you for allowing me to use my voice and share her story and having me on here.
Victoria Volk 1:20:46
Thank you. I feel it's the ripples, the ripples. And so, thank you for sharing your story. And for being my guest. Yeah, thank you. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love. From my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you're hurting know that what you're feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.