Michelle Vignault | My Quest To Create a New Normal After Sibling and Spouse Loss

This week's guest is Michelle Vignault, who opens her heart about the unimaginable journey of losing both her brother to suicide and her husband within just six months. Michelle shares how she was suddenly thrust into solo parenting two daughters, ages 2 and 4 while navigating her own overwhelming grief. 

With raw honesty, Michelle reveals how writing became her lifeline—beginning as simple notes and evolving into heartfelt letters to her best friend before ultimately becoming her book, "Hold Back the Rain," titled after a meaningful Duran Duran song that resonated with her struggle to withstand life's torrential challenges. 

Despite eight years passing since these profound losses, Michelle vulnerably shares her recent unexpected grief relapse, reminding us that healing isn't linear, and even when we feel strong, grief can suddenly knock us off our feet. 

Our conversation tenderly explores how Michelle has broken generational patterns by creating space for open communication with her daughters. She uses honest, distraction-free moments to help them process their feelings while allowing herself to express her own sadness and anger authentically and openly. 

The poignant image on her book cover—capturing Michelle with her daughters as they release her husband's ashes—symbolizes their transformed family and the quiet strength they've discovered together. It offers listeners a touching testament to how families can find their way forward through devastating loss with love, honesty, and resilience. 

Michelle's story reminds us that while we cannot hold back the rain of grief, we can learn to dance in it, finding moments of connection and growth even in our darkest hours. Her journey inspires us to embrace vulnerability as strength and to recognize that healing happens in community—whether through writing, honest conversations, or the simple act of showing up for ourselves and our loved ones day after day. 

RESOURCES:

• Book, Hold Back the Rain
• Book,

Transcript

Victoria Volk: Hello, and welcome to grieving voices. Today, my guest is Michelle Vignault. And with honesty and confidence, in touch of Duran Duran, Michelle shares her journey of ups and downs through a complicated life and how a special friendship helped her through the darkness to find a second chance at happiness. With the support of a best friend, Ignol discovers the tools she needs to overcome one obstacle after another until she eventually regains control of her family. Hold back the reign brings to light the difficult realities of life, but ultimately is the story of how inner strength and perseverance are the keys to making it through.
Thank you so much for being my guest today, Michelle, and I had to look up this Duran Duran reference, which I'm familiar with Duran Duran. I think everybody listening if you grew up in the eighties particularly, you know the song Hungry like a wolf, like who doesn't know Hungry like a wolf. And if you don't, you've been living under a rock. Even my youngest like, she's gonna be sixteen years soon, knows that song. Like, she I've made sure to expose her to all types of genres, not a cash, like, so many old stuff. Yeah. But I did not know the song, hold back the writing, which is the title of your book. And so I'm interested to learn more of that connection that you felt, feel with Duran Duran and music, and and how that plays into the title. But I just let's start at what brings you to greet you voices and and how the book came to be.

Michelle Vignault: Thank you. Well, thank you, Victoria. Thank you for having me and having your listeners take time to listen to my story and our conversation. I wanna first commend you. You're raising a great daughter if she already knows about Duran Duran and Hungry like the Wolf. So thank you for for educating her. I've had a long love for the music, the band, the style, and over decades, their music has followed me. And I've, you know, through difficult times would rely on music to keep me going. And so after tackling, I think, tackling a lot of life changes I decided to write my story and it was for me an easy inclusion of Duran Duran, the references sometimes in the book and hold back the rain. It's It's an uncommon song of theirs and it has some beautiful sweet lyrics to it. So it was a good it wasn't the original title to be honest with you for my book, but In the end, it was it was the best choice.

Victoria Volk: What does that title mean to you? Hold back the rain.

Michelle Vignault: You know, I think I've been given some cards, some life cards that have been far difficult to live with. And I feel like things come at you, work comes at me, life comes at me, comes out to all of us, and you wanna push back, you wanna be able to handle it all, but sometimes I can't. I don't. And it's a little bit ironic. Hold back the rain. Who's going to stop rain? Who's going to stop life changes? So it's it's meaningful for me for me.

Victoria Volk: A picture that comes to my mind is, you know, grief can be so isolating and that I think there's a lot of pictures depicting grief with rain falling. Right? And someone just kinda crouch down and you feel like you're under this cloud of sadness and sorrow and like, you're under the rain clouds. Right? And

Michelle Vignault: Yeah. Yes, that cloud of grief or depression for some or just that weight. Right? Mhmm. The overwhelming feeling and the simplicity of the rain being also cleansing and refreshing and sometimes a new start.
Right?

Victoria Volk: But I picture someone just coming in because it can be so isolating and you feel like you're alone in it. And then sometimes someone comes along with an umbrella. Or you decide you figure out that, oh, I guess I can get my own umbrella. And empower myself and cover myself from this pouring rain. Right?
Like, just I don't know. That's the picture that comes to my mind. It's not even it's not a trying to stop or push back but it's trying to shelter in place and get some solace and protection within yourself and with community and with support. And so let take us back in time to when your storm started.

Michelle Vignault: Yes. Thank you. My storm My storm happened a few years ago. Well, I take that back already. You know, my depression is something that has it's a big topic but it's been a part of my family history for a lot of years. I grew up with a brother nine years older named Mark. And knew very young, at a very young age of my own, I realized that Mark had depression. And so with a life journey with with being his younger sister and seeing him go through ups and downs for decades. And so at one point, it was just really too much for him. And so we always had an inkling that he might not sure how detailed to get, but you know, he had so many challenges. We just kind of had this idea that at some point Mark might not be able to handle life like the rest of us. And and we can talk more about him, but he passed away in fall of twenty sixteen, and he took his life. And so my grief journey first time ever in my early forties lost someone dear to me. And even though I had a life of preparation, it still was real. Right? So I lost my brother. And had a hard time managing my grief. I married at the time two young daughters and my husband was at the same time going through his own challenges. And he passed away six months after my brother. So in that short time to lose two of your most favorite people was a lot. And so that's about when my journey began eight years ago. Eight years ago. I became a widow, March twenty seven. And in eight years, sometimes I think Victoria, I have this. I feel like I'm super mom most of the days.
I work hard at my job. I know I'm a good daughter. I know I'm a good friend, but you know at the same time it catches up with you and it caught up with me completely off guard last year. And so last year, I was going, going, going, fast forward to November. Started feeling a little funny about things just overwhelmed and stressed more than normal and then in December, just this past December last month, I completely crashed. And not talking car accident. I'm talking that complete overwhelm and just a big kind of like a slap in the face of Oh, no. No. No. No. No. No. Reef is still here. You still miss these people. You're you're daily affected by them not being here with me with us. And oh, it it knocked me on my feet. I probably was in bed as much as possible, slept as much as possible, didn't see it for weeks and then woke up one day at the end of the month and realized, oh, you're you're not superwoman. You cannot do it all. You you do have the weight of the grief in it. That was hard. That was a that was a hard lesson last month.

Victoria Volk: Can you pinpoint to anything that provoked them?

Michelle Vignault: You know, I travel for work and airports for some reason. Are can be triggering for me. And the third time I had a it's a third time this has happened. I had a work trip came back from it. And I think the thing about airports is that I often see these families going on vacation or, you know, people are at their in their best form, their cited. They're happy typically. And these families with the daughters, and even though my daughters are older, twelve and ten, But to see these dads with the little kids and helping with the diapers and doing all the dad things, it airports they remind me of what I didn't have for my daughters. And it's yeah. Yeah. I don't Yeah. It's just a strange It was a catalyst for kind of me realizing, it's eight years. You're doing really good, Michelle. But you're still you know, we go to the restaurant, we ask for a table for three. Oh, would there be a husband? Would there be a forthcoming? No. Just the three of us. You know, there's so many encounters that can happen. And it kind of built up. It really did build up.

Victoria Volk: Do you feel like you've processed a lot of your grief? And if you have, if you feel you have what you mentioned a friend, but how how was your healing process been the past eight years?

Michelle Vignault: Yes. Thank you. You know, at the beginning, when I lost my brother and my husband, I I'm a notetaker. I should say that. I have pages here of notes as we've been talking and talked earlier. And even then I was making lists. My husband was in the hospital. I feel that the process of writing and scribbling, taking notes, making lists, and very much that kind of person. And at the beginning, when I lost my brother and lost my husband, I was all about less, you know, what was happening to my husband, Tracy, in the hospital. And who do I need to contact? And who do I need to do this and that? And so I bring this up because those lists turned into letters at the time to my best friend in Austin, Texas. And I was writing letters to Suzanne. And I love letters and mail and little things like that, and it makes me happy to send people cards and things like that. So at first, I was writing some letters. One of the letters I started writing more at night just for myself to get ideas out and get concepts out and release. And then after about a year, I realized that I was processing my grief at that time through writing. And it was just writing for myself at that point. I don't know that I'll ever be over the loss of my brother and husband and the loss of so many layers to the onion of feelings, but coping and working through it and getting through it and looking to light Writing. Writing was a surprising more than a safety net.
Writing became more of a critical mission. I had to express myself. And then in time, it became a book. And I went down that process and and in the end to have have my book to show.

Victoria Volk: Well, what writing does is it helps us connect our head to our heart. It's different when you're typing, you know, on a laptop or something, but versus ink to paper. It's the ink to paper. It's the active process of your thoughts coming through your fingertips and I think onto paper is the process of connecting to your heart and that's why I think writing is so powerful. It was it's journaling has been my thing since I was young. Writing poetry. I was writing poetry when I was an elementary, you know, not very good poetry, but needless to say, I was writing as well. I've I've published a book too actually in twenty seventeen, but I'm curious because the the cover of your book

Michelle Vignault: Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: It's neither your brother nor your spouse and yet that's the pain I I believe you're writing about, but I, of course, know there's more to more to a cover of a book that meets the eye, and there's more engraver than meets the eye. And our grief is usually cumulative and it's cumulatively negative. And so I imagine that you had plenty of grief before your brother even passed having Mhmm. Had that happen in your forties. You know, we don't get to our forties unscathed and we definitely don't get beyond our forties unscathed. So what were your grief experiences as a child, if you're open to sharing any of those. And Mhmm. What did you learn about grief? What were you taught about grief? Is it something that was talked about growing up?

Michelle Vignault: Oh, Victoria, you're so good.

Victoria Volk: Thank you. I'll take that as a compliment.

Michelle Vignault: Yes. Yes. I have some thought collisions going on in upstairs. You know, as a child, my experience with Greek was very limited. You know, I I'm a child of the seventies, and my parents did not talk about feelings. You know, we we sat down to eat dinner, we ate it. We had a job to do, we did it, we didn't talk back. You know, it's a very different time than today in twenty twenty five. But when I grandparents passed away on my mom's side. I was maybe under nine, you know, maybe somewhere between six and nine. And mom was sad. We nothing was said too much after we had the news, and that was it. And I never felt comfortable asking questions. I never felt comfortable bringing it up. And with many things in our family, we didn't talk about it. We didn't talk about things and especially our feelings. So

Victoria Volk: Were you exposed to your grandparents?

Michelle Vignault: We were a little distant of geographically on the grandparents. So I didn't have a big closeness to them. You know, I had a heart broken, a timer too, and lost friends along the way due to geographic or life changes. But a true death of someone flows was probably one of my best friends, her brother died of suicide. Back in the nineties. And seeing how her and her family worked through their grief was probably one of the bigger lessons I've had in seeing people express, talk about it, and kind of work through that brief. What is strangely ironic about life is that it's so unpredictable? Meaning when my friend's brother took his life, my parents went to that son's funeral on my behalf. Twenty five something years later, that same family came to my brother's funeral to support my parents. And it's just so fascinating to see how, you know, the loss of a child is just so great.
And to see my parents and their parents, it it's just a fascinating thing. Just the pain. And so fast forward to the cover of my book, which is a picture of myself with my two daughters. As you said, not my brother, not my exes, not my boy husband, it's a picture of my daughters and I that captures us in such a way we took the photograph when we went to release my husband's ashes, a friend took that photograph of us. And I feel like it's so striking because in the end, who's still here?
Are the three of us? And that image that is on the cover, we had no idea what we were getting ourselves into. I had no idea that I was in that moment going to have such a great responsibility. I already knew I was a parent and I had a responsibility, but I had a buddy to do parenting with. Right? And in that moment taking that photograph, it was kind of one of those life aha moments of this is our family. It's the three of us. The dad's not here. He's not coming back. And there was a very again aha an aha moment. But there's a strength there. There's fear in the eyes. But there's a strength there of I have the opportunity to improve communication in my family history, to teach the girls skills, They were two and four when their dad passed. But I had the opportunity to give them a family that communicates. And so I put us on the cover because together, we're stronger. And in some ways, we can't hold back that rain. We can't push through.

Victoria Volk: How have you communicated with your daughters about grief? What have you found helpful? I'm sure you've done research along the way and how to support them and would have you found helpful. Then all kids are different. Right? To I mean, I lost my dad when I was eight, but nobody knew what to do. Mhmm. It was there was no communication whatsoever. And so I'm just curious what you learned and what was helpful for you and and helping supporting your daughters. Mhmm.

Michelle Vignault: A couple of things that come to mind are simplicity. And don't elaborate, but simplicity and trying different things. So in regards to simplicity, because they were so little at the beginning, that I thought, okay, I don't want them to rely on hugging a stuffy. I don't want them to rely on seeing a TV in the background and that's their memory of. I I wanted simplicity. So upstairs are our bedrooms and there's a landing and it's very it's just a hallway. So we typically go to that landing to have a serious conversation of sorts. Right? So that way, there's no distractions, and I keep it simple. So I don't I wouldn't typically speak with them for more than five or six minutes. And in those moments, it's being honest. And me saying, giving them the information, for example, when their dad passed, you know, remaining honest and also telling them I'm really sad. And if I feel like crying when I'm talking with them in those moments and I cry, I want them to sometimes see that mom does have those emotions, does get sad, does get mad, mad that your dad is not here to see you dance ballet at your recital. And I'm sad he's not here to go on the airplane with us to go on vacation. You know? So I feel like me expressing different emotions over time gives them and has taught them that when my now twelve year old has a problem with a fellow student She is not cautious about coming to talk to me about it. She trusts that I'm gonna listen and see if there's a way to course correct. And then trying things, honestly, Victoria, like years ago, we did this family group therapy, where the adults would go to one side and talk about things, and then the kids would have art therapy and talk about things. Well, years later, my daughter, my oldest daughter, Charlotte, she says, I hate it going to do that. You know? Some things work and some things don't. But, you know, at the time, I felt like it made sense to be around a group of kids that all had lost someone dear to them and talk through it. And even though she may have rolled their eyes at different points in time. I'm only trusting that trying these different trying different tools and trying different things that it will help propel them for their womanhood. You know, to be able to, like you mentioned earlier, have your heart work more cohesively with your mind.
Right?

Victoria Volk: Would you say that would you describe Charlotte as highly sensitive, empathic?

Michelle Vignault: Yeah. That

Victoria Volk: is why that didn't work for her.

Michelle Vignault: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: It was too sad. It was too heavy. It's too much of other people's stuff. She hasn't learned how to create this energetic bubble for herself that what's theirs is theirs and what's hers is hers.

Michelle Vignault: I think

Victoria Volk: she can learn as an highly sensitive child and pathogen child, which there's a difference. Not all highly sensitive people are in passive, but all empaths are highly sensitive. So I'm an empath who's highly sensitive. When I started to learn about energy work and energy itself and grief and how this all tied together and looking back at my childhood, it made total sense. I required a lot of sleep.
I slept a lot. The world was just too much and too heavy. My environment was too much and too heavy. It was chaotic. It was a lot of anger. It was fighting. It was it was just too heavy for me. It weighed literally weighed me down. So the best gift that you can give her is for her to learn what's her's what isn't hers, to tuning into her body, connecting with her body. Mhmm. Being in her body. That's where, like, dance, yoga. Expressive using her like, just being in her body can create a sense of safety within herself.

Michelle Vignault: That's so fantastic that you share that because Charlotte is such a Active participant with a bubble, volleyball soccer. She loves k pop dancing. You're with a group but you're honing in on yourself

Victoria Volk: Mhmm.

Michelle Vignault: In big ways.

Victoria Volk: When it comes to emotions, that can be a little harder. Yeah. Because as an empath, you want it you're you can put yourself in the shoes of other people. You're sensitive to other people's emotions. You want to help.
You want to you want your environment to be higher vibe because it helps you to feel better. Right? So empathize highly sensitive people can tend to become the caretakers, emotional caretakers of their environment, of those people around them, often at their own expense.

Michelle Vignault: And then zaps and not share of it. Yeah. Interesting.

Victoria Volk: Just I'm just throwing that out there just based on what you described. Absolutely. But I can relate to that, you know, being that as a kid and not understanding it. No one having this understanding around me. Right? Like, there was my mom wasn't into personal development or anything like that. It was I pretty much raised myself. Emotionally raised myself. So but if you can help her recognize sensations or feelings in her body, Like, what's a yes and what's a no and sensing the emotions of others? Well, what comes up for you when you're when you're sitting with someone who said? Do you recognize that that's not yours that you're just maybe feeling what they're feeling? Mhmm.

Michelle Vignault: That's so much to learn. And a lot of it is hands on learning. Right? It's not it's it's not what I was taught. I was

Victoria Volk: oh, we're not.

Michelle Vignault: No. And on top of being raised in a family unit that didn't communicate. Mhmm. On top of that, my parents had very loud relationship. And it was volatile at times. And so I grew up knowing. Stay in my bubble. Look a certain way. Don't be too loud. Don't be too quiet. So I feel like I'm now as an only parent. I'm careful not to say single parent. That makes me very uncomfortable. I'm an only parent. But as an only parent, I'm also overcompensating so many days of trying to be the dad or the mom or the this and the that, and that's exhausting and it's impossible.

Victoria Volk: How do you support yourself? In your own energy.

Michelle Vignault: I'm learning, Victoria. I'm constantly learning. You know, in lately, I'm having to remind myself and literally remind myself, you're doing a good job. You're doing a good job. You're doing enough. And lately, I've also been realizing that it's very lonely because we go go go throughout the year work and family and this and that. And you know, it gets it gets very lonely. So I think I I certainly rely on my good friendships to help me. And Yeah. Yeah. Not sure if that answers your question.

Victoria Volk: Are your parents still living?

Michelle Vignault: They are still living. Mhmm. They divorced after forty five years to get there?

Victoria Volk: Wow.

Michelle Vignault: And I thought I thought at the time I thought why? Why at this point? You know? How old were they then? That was that was in o six that they divorced the next year over twenty.
They're in their late eighties.

Victoria Volk: Wow.

Michelle Vignault: They're still in great shape for for soon to be eighty eight and eighty six, I think.

Victoria Volk: Wow. They're living on their own yet?

Michelle Vignault: Mom is in not a compound, but a a facility with, you know, she has her own apartment and,

Victoria Volk: you know, like assisted living type.

Michelle Vignault: Yeah. She has

Victoria Volk: people there to help out if she needs it, when she needs it, but has that independence.

Michelle Vignault: Yes. A hundred percent. She loves it. She loves it. And then dad is still in his house downstream.

Victoria Volk: That's remarkable. Did he either remarry?

Michelle Vignault: He's had a long standing girlfriend for a lot of years. So dad and Sandy have been together a long time and very happy, did not marry. They had done that, then they were done.

Victoria Volk: How did that? How did you work through that? Forty five years? Like, your parents like, forty five years. Like, how did you it's so different. Like, I had a friend that Mhmm. Her parents divorced when we were, you know, thirteen. She was third like, that's a really difficult age. And and then my mom had remarried after my dad past and they ended up getting divorced too, but that was a blessing in disguise. Mhmm. Blessings to me anyway. But how did forty five years? Like, what like, was it hard did you feel it was heartbreaking? Or It was so disappointing

Michelle Vignault: because for all that time, you know, my brothers are six and nine years older. And

Victoria Volk: so you were the youngest.

Michelle Vignault: I'm the youngest. The baby girl. So live through all the heartache, be yelling, the physical stuff. Like, live through stuff it down. I was married to my first husband at the time. And and they had a call on a Sunday afternoon, and it was a phone conversation, had me on speaker phone, just had a regular Sunday conversation, call plan, And they dropped the news that they're getting into force, and I'm thinking, you couldn't have done it sooner.

Victoria Volk: Wow.

Michelle Vignault: And to be honest with you, Victoria, they're they're happier apart and together. I can say that now. But right at the time, it was it was very disappointing. And I think the hardest thing is that Even adults can't be adults. They can't even adult themselves sometimes, meaning now I'm an only parent and I know they're older, but they've not really, you know, the girls don't go there for sleepovers.
Right. You know, they're not meeting me at the bus stop to get the girls. They're you know, it's it's still a disjointed relationship. Mhmm. There's that separation in wall, not to get too close. You know, so I mentioned that because Yeah. It was it was disappointing. And and then after forty five years of spending time together, they were so done that when I did get remarried, they had to stay separate. When I have a birth of my first child and then the second child and then that this happens and that happens. It's like, why do now I have the burden of keeping them separate? For the past twenty years, when they were inseparable, almost forty five. Mhmm. So it's also a resentment of, really, now I have to deal with this slayer of the onion, on top of all the other things. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Something no one's ever really I don't think anyone's ever mentioned in terms of divorce as adults, like when the parents divorce as adults. Like, I don't think that's something that's really talked about as that you can feel relief, right, that they're happy and that they've, you know, gone their separate ways because now you don't have to hear that noise. And at the same time, well now then, how is this my problem now to accommodate? Great. Right. In the number of times, I've asked either of them.

Michelle Vignault: Can you just

Victoria Volk: move forward? Can you simply and they have?

Michelle Vignault: And they have, but they have that.

Victoria Volk: That's the thing that goes back to your that goes back to your statement of, like, even adults don't know how to adult. And b, it's When it comes to I I've talked about this before on the podcast, that, like, when it comes to, like, child creepers, we'll say divorce in particular and there's children involved. It's like or even a best spouse passes away. Right? When my dad passed away, my grandparents, I lost my entire dad's side of the family, cousins, aunts, uncles, because the adults could not Mhmm. Adults. Could not have a child? Yeah. I was like, I then suffered that connection because the adults couldn't adults. Right.
And so it's like it's no different. You can be a child and your parent can make decisions that affect you You can see

Michelle Vignault: your adult, the child,

Victoria Volk: and your parents, choices can still affect you. It's like, do you not learn as adults? Like, your parents not learn, like, this is why it's so important that we sweep our own doorstep. Like, and look at the past. What are the lessons?
How can I move forward? How can I make this better for other people involved? That's awareness? That takes some self sacrifice. Right?

Michelle Vignault: Self reflection. Self reflection.

Victoria Volk: Exactly. Like, I'm getting a little worked up just because it's, like, the patterns are keyed. That's my point in saying this. Yes. That's why it's so important.
And that's why what you're doing in talking with your kids about grief, it stops with you. This is why it's so this is why education on this podcast is so important to me that people get this message, sweep your doorstep. It will impact generations.

Michelle Vignault: And that gives me shivers right now because it's so true. Don't go to

Victoria Volk: change Yeah. You might not see it today. That's your legacy.

Michelle Vignault: Right.

Victoria Volk: Wouldn't that be your legacy of anything? People think, oh, I'm, you know, with your grief. Like, I have to write a book or I have to do this big grandiose thing. Clean up your energy, clean up your life, look at the past, learn from it, let it transform you, transmute it into into let the legacy be that you become a better version of yourself and for those people in your life. That give your legacy.

Michelle Vignault: And it's it's taken me now being a widow for eight years. It took me about six to feel proud and not embarrassed of my family because a younger Michelle would have judged that mom with the two daughters and no partner with her. My eighteen year old self would be very judgey. Now in my early fifties, much different story. Now I see a vision of, you know, me and my girls and I think I'm the one that's doing it. And we're gonna do this together. We're going to depression for example. It doesn't it didn't just hit my brother Mark. It's it's in our family genes. So I can recognize I can sniff out almost somebody with depression a mile away because I know the signs and I know the attitudes. And so there's a chance my daughters could have that. Challenge in their life. So I'm very observant to recognize and fight for them and make a better life for them. And for example, my youngest daughter, Justine, is now ten. She has spent the last eight years in speech therapy. And she was just this calendar month released from speech therapy for the first time. She's set. But identification at two years old when that child did not want to walk or talk, we had to intervene. As an adult, you have the opportunity To make things better, I have the opportunity then to get her into early child care, get her to good doctors, work through the system. Eventually, I had a test done, a blood test done, and found out a diagnosis to her trisonomy.
Which is a whole other conversation, I'm sure. But here's a challenge. I gotta fix it. I gotta find a way to pivot and take care of this because I don't want my daughter one day to take her life because of depression. I don't want my daughters one day to have an alcohol problem like their father. I want to ideally, I can't I can't keep them from harm. I recognize that. And there's no crystal ball, but as an adult. Adult. So I'm learning what skills work for me to try to pass on to them.
And so many times when the girls say, can you help me with this? Can you do this for me? Can you There's always an opportunity. Not every time. No one would be too much on someone. But so many times, there's that opportunity to say, okay, this is our problem. This stinks. Great. What are we gonna do about this? And then we talk about it and we'd figure, okay. What are our options? Can we call the school and ask them a question? Can we call a dance class and see if this is right? You know, can we how do we pivot in teaching them the skills is so key? So, yes, I'm all about adulting.

Victoria Volk: Well, it's not taught in school. Right? Like, how to how to navigate life is not taught in school. And so as the parents and as the caregivers and caretakers, like, it is up to us. To become the best versions of ourselves.
So we're in a position where we can be that for our kids. Mhmm. And that's like, as you were talking, like, you came to this podcast because of the death of your brother and your spouse. And yet, your parents divorced after forty five years. You had a divorce prior to your husband passing. Your spouse had been dealing struggling with alcohol. Like, your daughter has this diagnosis? Coincidentally at age two, like, did she have symptoms beforehand? Like, that you You know, the timing of it seems interesting to me is as when when this came out to be around her father passing. Because by age three, we've learned seventy five percent of how to respond to life.
By age three.

Michelle Vignault: Oh my gosh. You know, Justine, she's such a good person and she very early on. I was on maternity leave and she wouldn't quite look at me I had a I had a very I feel like it took a long time to get her to be in that moment of being her mom. With Charlotte, it was instant love. It was taking to the moon and back.
But with Justine, it was just a little different. I didn't quite connect. I didn't quite get her. And so fast forward our first one or two years, didn't wanna talk, didn't make a lot of noises, very quiet, didn't wanna walk, did kind of a boot but scuffle kind of maneuver. And knew something was up. Knew something was a little different and had to figure out what maybe that was. And about the same time, we decided to move from Austin to Atlanta. So, Justine is six months old. We move across the country, and that's really when things got interesting. But while my husband while Justine was we were realizing she needed early intervention is really when my husband started to go off the rails. So I was managing being back in Atlanta, being close to family. My husband is spiraling. I haven't tapped my finger on that it's alcoholism. But he's different. And I have this beautiful two year old that doesn't wanna walk and does not have much to say.

Victoria Volk: Let's another child.

Michelle Vignault: And another child that is Ready for college, not for. You know, she's just she's witnessing

Victoria Volk: all this happening and and being she's in it too. Right?

Michelle Vignault: She's she hears mom and dad. Talking in ways that we're never mom and dad didn't argue. Now we're arguing. You know, we're in a different place. Her sisters you know, mom and dad are spending time on phone calls and doctor appointments for little sister, and so it affected everybody. And, yeah, and kind of fought and really fought for Justine. And many doctors at two one and two charter for autism. And having a couple of friends with autistic children I didn't why I didn't buy it. I didn't agree with the doctors. So I kept finding other doctors.
And someone finally listened. And she needed a speech therapy. She needed physical therapy to teach her how to walk. And trisotomy, it turns out years later, I found out what her diagnosis was and very proud moment. To get that diagnosis for her, to treat her the right way, to give her the skills that she needed, not just a diagnosis on a form to change the trajectory of her life of wasted opportunity.
No. I argued with the doctors, I got sent out of offices. That's fine. In the end, she got her diagnosis. And it takes a little bit longer for her brain to be able to do the things that aren't so easy for so many of us. And so now at ten, she's now becoming an actual ten year old. Like, all all cylinders are firing and whatever that saying is, but Yeah, adulting, going back to adulting for a moment and and recognizing how I want things to be as good as they can be for my kids. And I think every parent really wants that and it takes hard energy to push forward. And I think as an only parent, I just have that drive of Well, who else is gonna clean the bathrooms? Who else is going to pay the bills? Who else? No. No. Can

Victoria Volk: I just applaud you? For a moment. Takes courage to do what you've done. I'll be proud of yourself, and I hope you take stock of that sometimes. And you know you've written a book While doing all of this Yes. We don't celebrate ourselves enough. I'm guilty of it too, but we just don't. We just don't. So I'm just celebrating you. In this moment.

Michelle Vignault: I will accept that today. Thank you. Thank you.

Victoria Volk: So, I mean, you've shared a lot about what grief has taught you, not without me. Asking even the direct question. I feel like you've really articulated what has what you've gotten out of all that you've experienced because it's not just the death of your brother and the death of your husband. It's all that stuff in between that make us who we are. It's not just the one big thing in this other thing.
It's it's cumulative. How would you have described the Michelle before? And I don't even know which which before you wanna go with. Mhmm. The before your brother I think that's a decision for you to make. Like, when you felt yourself really, I'll say, cocoon and then come out a different way. The other side? How would you describe yourself before and after? And what where is that distinction for you? You think?

Michelle Vignault: Interesting question. Before and after, I feel like we live so many lives or we have the opportunity to live lives. And I've probably mostly of my life been a half full kind of a girl, glass half full. But that that shift, I feel like I didn't come into my oh, if I'm being really honest, probably after I had both my girls, I feel like I grew up in the right ways. And I'm stumbling here a little bit.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Michelle Vignault: I think with Tracy, my husband's death, it's been such a lot of a few years day to day, hoping. But I feel like Yeah. I asked me your question one more time. I'm so sorry.

Victoria Volk: How would you describe the Michelle before?

Michelle Vignault: If you

Victoria Volk: ever experience, you feel transitioned you the most into you know, so let's say, for example, maybe this will help. Like, we all have these, like, defining moments or these moments in life where that's the day everything changed. That's the day where I was, like, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And whatever that was, who I was before and who I was after are not the same. Like, it was, like, exponential growth, exponential self awareness. You know, it takes action oftentimes. Right? There's action in between there. And for me, it was grief recovery. Like, I did grief recovery, went through that, and that changed my life.
It changed my entire perspective of my past. Help me reframe my story, the story I was holding on to, stories that I weren't even mine that I was holding on to. Does that help? How would you describe the Michelle before and the Michelle after?

Michelle Vignault: Thank you for that. You know, I think there was a defining moment on the floor of my kitchen. I had just lost my husband. He was in the hospital for forty five days. And one of those evenings, soon after, I had to make my kids dinner. And we had just moved into this house, I hadn't cooked a lot, I hadn't used the oven. And I sat here on the floor far too long trying to turn this machine on. And just with the girls having some movie blaring, I think it was finding nemo. And they were consumed. And I'm on the other side of the partition, on the floor, staring at the oven, balling. Balling. And I thought, okay. If I can turn this thing on, this is it. This is where the old Michelle of being selfish and going to concerts and doing what I want and having this lights that I chose and being Michelle, this is where I'm a grown up. He's gone. I have to do this and I can do this. And I sort of just pulled myself up. Got the ebb and going, got dinner going, got them to bed, and moving forward, in time I embraced my family and what it looked like. With the three of us. Because in the long term, we were going to be a family far longer than that short blurb of time that we dated and had babies.
We had so much more to do. And in the picture on the cover of the book is so defining of that moment that we were newly by ourselves, the three of us. And that was maybe my defining pivot of a stronger Michelle. I've become a lot stronger, more confident, more flexible, and a lot more honest. And I hope those are all attributes that the girls are witnessing. In that one day, when they're in their thirties and they're comprehending more and more and doing more and that ideally they can look back and think mom did write by us. You know, she she taught us the best she could.

Victoria Volk: You forgot one attribute. Patients.

Michelle Vignault: Don't we need so much patience? And maybe COVID taught us that, you know, COVID was an amazing equalizer in so many ways, you know, and that's a whole other conversation, but patience. You have to have patience.

Victoria Volk: One thing we haven't really talked about, I kind of touched on it earlier, but we didn't really go there in the conversation. And I I feel it's important from your perspective as an only parent. And the circumstances that brought you to only parenting, but self care. Mhmm. What does that look like for you?

Michelle Vignault: Self care. You know? For a long time, you know, when I was writing my book, eating well, I've always slept well. Can't complain there. But while I was writing my book, I did teach myself sometimes by watching videos on YouTube, but also taught myself to sit in the quiet. Meaning, I'm not a big TV person. I might have my radio on, but I'm not a big TV person. I get the girls to bed at a certain hour and then I'd have a block. Of, you know, two to four hours of Michelle time. And that would be my self care opportunity. And sometimes I would do yoga and watch yoga videos or listen to brief talks. I wanted to hear who had it worse, who had it harder. You know, if it wasn't real, I could not relate. And so, self care has taken different forms over the years. And more recently, it's walking.
It's always dancing. We always have dance, little dance parties in our house. And then even more recently, Victoria, I would say as recent as the past three months. I am having to remind myself to be Michelle. Not the widow, not the only parent, not the flexible person at work that, you know, helps people get things done. It's me and Michelle. And self care is hard. It's hard for me to be nice to myself. I don't always eat great. I don't walk every day. You know, it's that is a that's a hard it's hard to take care of myself.

Victoria Volk: When do you feel the most like yourself? When do you feel the most like at home within yourself? What are you doing when you're feeling the most like yourself?

Michelle Vignault: Probably when I'm being creative, you know. For a few years, it was the book. Other times, it's collaging, maybe painting, maybe writing, but doing something creative and listening to music and yes. Having that that quiet time.

Victoria Volk: So are you doing more of that?

Michelle Vignault: I will start.

Victoria Volk: I think you found your solution for self care.

Michelle Vignault: Self care. It's so hard. It's so hard

Victoria Volk: for your self care. Right? Like, think people think, like, self care is, like, bubble bath, and pampering, and getting your nails done, and hair, and done, and, like, no, sometimes it can be. Just doing what brings you joy. Right.
That simplicity.

Michelle Vignault: Mhmm. Absolutely. Yes. I need to I'm that's my goal this year. And it's not to be corny.
Oh, it's January and, you know, spring is around the corner and, you know, it'll be here before we know it. It it's just it's a true need. For me to put on the oxygen mask. You know, when you're on the airplane, what do they always say? Take care of yourself first and then the person next to you? And it's hard to keep that oxygen tank on. And as recent as this morning, I logged in to work, I work remote, logged in, and I thought, no, I can't juggle today. I don't want to focus x amount of time on this and then have this great opportunity to talk with you. I want to be, I need boundaries, and I'm just now learning to say, no, I'm actually going to not work today. I'm not going to put my energy towards this. I'm going to focus on myself today. And focus on telling our story. And it took me a couple hours this morning to just decompress, you know, get the girls to school, do the thing, be myself and I'm really trying. I'm really going to keep trying. To sometimes say no, I have to just be Michelle.

Victoria Volk: Is a really good book that, you know, after we go after I went through brief recovery, I learned that I didn't I didn't know boundaries. I wouldn't recognize I didn't recognize other people's boundaries, and we don't. Like, if we don't have boundaries ourselves, we don't recognize other people's boundaries. That's where we get offended and feel like someone did something to us because that's why we're uncomfortable with other people's boundaries. If that's your indicator that you don't have boundaries yourself as if you're upset by someone else's boundaries. There's your sign, but it's the book called the book is called boundaries. Doctor Townsend and there's another doctor. So I'll put the link in the show notes. But that covers all aspects of life, really. There's a little bit of a Christian spin on it, but not heavily. Mhmm. But, yeah, it's a really good book. I got one final question that I jotted down here. Can you speak to the difficulty or maybe not of friendships? First of all, friendships are tough as an adult, but as an only parent, as a widow. And then I'm also curious if if you've dated or tried dating and what that's like.

Michelle Vignault: Oh, dating. Dating. Friendship ups and dating. So let's talk about this. Friendship ups is one of the reasons that I began my book.
I started writing letters to Suzanne, and it was a way to you know, Suzanne, let me talk about her for a real quick moment, please. She's a fiery little firecracker. She is in Austin, Texas. She has a great husband and family. And we worked together for close to twenty years. Two different companies but we always work together. So we were work spouses for forever until I moved back to Atlanta as an adult. And so when Tracy died and I was writing, I was writing to Suzanne because she was she knew everything about me. She knew my coffee order. She knew how much I slept. She knew what I did the night before. She knew it all. And so my friendship with Suzanne was mission critical. And she and Deb and other friendships just saved me. The past couple of years, I've been very close with some girlfriends named Sofia and Kelly, and I've known since Sofia since high school.
And the three of us joke that were like the golden girls already because, you know, we check-in. I check-in with them daily. They check-in with me. They they bug me if I'm eating okay. They you know, friendships have become so important and they're so valuable. They're they they keep me going. I need my friendships. I need my girl team. I have some guy friends. But funny, most women don't want a widow chit chatting with their husband. So you know, don't get quite invited to maybe all the parties or all the dinners or, you know, I've learned that over the years.

Victoria Volk: Do you know do you know any other widows?

Michelle Vignault: I do and not very close with them, very different experiences. I feel like I've moved forward with understanding my relationship with Tracy is over. He's gone. But some widows that I know, the few widows I know, honestly, really still connected to those husbands. And almost still speak of them in the present.
And I'm just not that way, so it's a little hard for me to connect

Victoria Volk: and maybe more connected to the word widow. Mhmm. Do they also have children?

Michelle Vignault: Yes. Older children? Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Thinking it's like, well, you know, I thought you could create Michelle's widow club, you know. You could have your own club. Yeah.

Michelle Vignault: I believe it. I believe it. Yeah. So friendships are key. But when it comes to dating, couple funny stories. You know, it's been eight years, and so I've had ebbs and flows of dating. At the beginning, it was you know, no interest, please. That was the last thing. But then during COVID, you know, a couple of years in, just thought it was, you know, worth trying to date. So I got on some of those apps and and it was just miserable. You know, it was like people like me, you know, in their mid forties and been married once or twice and had the kids and I thought, oh, god, you know, I don't want other kids. I don't want, you know, it just There's so many thought collisions of dating in your forties and definitely had some fun and had some good first and last dates. Met in a wonderful Mandarin at the end of COVID. And we dated for a year very different experience, different feelings of feeling selfish or getting sinners and going on dates and leaving the girls and so much guilt. And then, you know, combated with the yin and the yang of but you have to be Michelle. You have to get out there. You need to do this. You need to do this. And I put all this pressure to be dating and and found a nice guy and we dated a year. And We had just had the holidays together and he caught COVID in about two weeks passed by and he calls me It's like Michelle, you haven't been sick with COVID, I haven't heard from you when You know what?
I honestly forgot. I'm so busy with work and life and my daughters. That the moment we had a little bit of a break. And in that moment, I thought, oh my god. We need to break up. First of all. And second of all, I don't need this. Right now in my life, my priority is getting the mask on my mouth and raising to good kids. And I'm good with that. It's not a lazy thing. It's not because, you know, I've lost myself. I just I feel cute. I feel good, but right now it's not a priority. Now if we talk and my girls are out of the house down the road and, you know, I deserve another big love. I know I do, and that better happen for me in the future. Right? But for now, it is just not we're such a good team, the three of us, that I feel like it needs to stay that way for them.

Victoria Volk: That's a great answer. And I think, you know, if it's if or when it's meant to be Mhmm. It'll bump into you when you least expect it. Right. That's the best.
That's when it's unexpected, you know.

Michelle Vignault: One day. One day

Victoria Volk: starts the line. Mhmm. And I have no doubt the more you lean into being Michelle. That's something that that will happen. Is there anything else that you would like to share that you didn't feel you got to?

Michelle Vignault: One thing comes to mind in my book, I created a Venn diagram. And on one side, it's your former life. And on one side, it's your new reality. Whether you were divorced or you you lost a parent in your, you know, it's your former life and then you have a new reality. I had a real conversation with my husband one day. It was a Saturday, and I had an intervention with him. And it was a big long day. Twelve hours, we had the intervention. And it was very spontaneous, but it worked out great. And he agreed to go in seek treatment for his alcoholism. And had one caveat to that. And it was the next day, it was Super Bowl Sunday. And he who didn't wanna miss the Super Bowl Sunday. So I said, okay, he'll be open, Monday at eight, we're going. And we did. But things happened and he landed in the hospital. It's a whole big story. But he had a fall in treatment on day one, and he landed in the hospital. And that was a new reality for me. And when he passed, it was a new reality. But that's not where I'm at. That's just things that are happening. But for me in the middle of the bend diagram is creating your new normal. And I think that has been a beneficial visual for me because each day we can have the opportunity to create a new normal. We lost love. We lost a person. But I just want people to know that you can move on and you can have great joy. So I really appreciate you having me today. Thank you, Victoria.

Victoria Volk: You're welcome. But now I have a follow-up question. Oh, is that adds another layer to the experience and that and because you brought it up, I this is why I'm asking. So was it the fall? Did he hit his head?
Did he and that the fall took his life? Like, did he

Michelle Vignault: Well, what seems to have happened is that he was I learned self detoxing himself off of alcohol the last couple of weeks of his life. And so for anyone listening that's not familiar with alcoholism as I was not, when you rip the band aid and take alcohol away from someone that's used to having it in their body, Their heart is like their liver. It remembers all this alcohol. The liver remembers all of this. So when you strip the alcohol away and you stop drinking about a week or two, So when he went to treatment, he hadn't been drinking.
His body was revolting. His eyes on the drive there were like yellow glowing. And I looked at him and I said, I remember, we didn't even actually leave the driveway. We got in the car. And I said, Tracy, I've never seen your eyes so yellow.
You know, and I remember him looking in the visor and then we went to treatment. So what I think happened that day is his agitation, his lack of alcohol, his liver was already gone. So is I think accumulation of all this all this happening in his body? And I think he had a fall. And that's what prompted them to take him to the hospital. I think he was agitated. I think there may have been a scuffle, but he landed in the hospital, but by then it wasn't because he had a fight it wasn't because of a I think it was really because his body was deteriorating. So he was there forty five days And after about two weeks, he, what I call, went underwater. He he he was gone. And so the last few weeks was you know, realizing what was happening and his body was starting to fail more and it was just going to get worse. And so yeah, I think he was in the hospital two and a half weeks or so when this internist, Stacey, came in the room to ask if she could talk to me. And So we went to this room, there was another doctor, a third party, and they were telling me all this information about Tracy. And I'm realizing, it's like someone else, it was an out of body experience. I remember saying they're thinking he's gonna die. No.
He he just he's going to get treatment. And this isn't what's gonna no. That's not going to happen. They're like, no. He cannot. His body will not survive this. His body will not. The liver was gone. So for someone that's an alcoholic, they're not a liver transplant candidate and his body wore out. He was forty five.

Victoria Volk: For me, it just is heartbreaking. Because he went to get help. Right?

Michelle Vignault: He went to get help. And he loved those two girls, like no one's business. He would let them mark them up with all sorts of markers and paint on him and crawl all over him. I mean, he was such a good dad. Such a good dad.

Victoria Volk: Do the girls know that do do the girls know that that he was struggling and that he went to get help?

Michelle Vignault: No. No. Their their understanding of dad is that he he had a lot of grown up drinks. Now they know it as alcohol. They know it as a beer.
They can call it a wine, but at the time. So in growing up, I and I've never been a big drinker. So if I did have something over the years that the girls would see if I'd have a glass of wine, it wasn't going to be the whole bottle. It's just going to be that glass, and they would ask me from time to time. Mommy, is that a grown up drink? Mommy, are you allowed to have, you know, they were con they became conscious of it. And but even now, they Justine has so faint memories of him, and Charlotte has more, a lot of good memories, all good with him. And and, you know, it's an ebb and flow of how much we talk about their dad? In the beginning, I was very conscious of. Dad would be so proud. Oh my gosh, you know. If your dad saw this, he would love this picture. You know? And in that kind of weaned over the years, and he comes up naturally now. But I do suspect that more questions will come. You know, when the book came out, Charlotte asked if she could read it. I said, you know? Not yet. It's a grown up book. So down the road when you're older? Yes. I'm sure there will be a time you will read it. And I had that in mind when I wrote. You know, I I wanted to be respectful of him in the book. But also from my honest point of view of what was happening. And so to go back maybe to the Venn diagram, and the middle is creating your new normal. And I think for myself and our family, time, it takes time to create your new normal. We have to give it time.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. But you've done a lot taken a lot of action in that time. It's not just idly idly waiting for time to pass and time heals all wounds, which is a myth. Right? It's the action that you've taken in that time.
Mhmm.

Michelle Vignault: The

Victoria Volk: choices, the decisions that you've made for yourself, for your daughters. It's not just passively living life. It's actively pursuing life in the quest of a new normal.

Michelle Vignault: In the quest of a new normal, that's so true. Because for people like my brother Mark who lived his fifty two years, on this earth. With most of those years so painful with the voices in his head and the depression and seeing that, that so many people live that way, not out of choice. But I just I want to give the girls the most out of life that I can give them. And honestly, I want that for myself.
And, you know, for anyone listening, write I'm not saying write book. I'm not saying you're going to write the next great poem, you know. Make a list. Make a grocery list. Make a list of things you want to do this weekend. Make a list of four things you wanted to get done this year. And if you can put it out there, I really do believe that it will you will receive. Like, for example, I wrote on a board over here, a couple of things that I wanted family goals. And one was take my kid to a particular concert. We got the tickets for that in June. We're very excited. And we wanted to go to DC this year, and we're gonna work towards that. And it's you know, have goals. That's something to look forward to.

Victoria Volk: Good advice. That's healthcare too. Right? Something to look forward to.

Michelle Vignault: It is.

Victoria Volk: Where can people find you if they wanna connect with you, find the book, all of those things?

Michelle Vignault: Oh, thank you. The book title, hold back the reign, is the same as my web page. And you'll find some more about me, find out some more. But honestly, you can get the book at Barnes and Noble online, Amazon. Online.
Maybe a couple other sources are on my website, but

Victoria Volk: to that, the show notes.

Michelle Vignault: So yeah. So

Victoria Volk: How about on social? In social?

Michelle Vignault: Social, I'm on Facebook. And Instagram. K? And so if you seek out a hold back the rain, I'm sure you can find it. There'll be a click on my site.

Victoria Volk: I'll put links, direct links to those on to your social media also in the show notes. So

Michelle Vignault: Well, thank you. Thank you.

Victoria Volk: Thank you so much for this lovely conversation today. I always get so much out of these conversations, and I hope likewise, you received something too.

Michelle Vignault: Yes, yes, time and experience. And I I thank you for yours.

Victoria Volk: You're welcome. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life, much love.