Helen Gretchen Jones | Signs, Synchronicities, and Spirit Teams: A Guide to Spiritual Connections

Helen Gretchen Jones, a death doula and intuitive channeler, shares her inspiring journey into shared death experiences and spiritual consciousness. With a rich background in art history, theology, sound therapy, Reiki, hypnosis, and past-life regressions, Helen now dedicates herself to supporting the dying and those they love in life and after death.

The innate gift of connecting with those who have crossed over has profoundly shaped her understanding of life and death, despite those around her not nurturing her gifts when she was younger.

Helen's personal experience with grief began when she foresaw her father's passing months before it happened—a vision that propelled her mission to help others find closure before dying. As a death doula influenced by such personal loss, she emphasizes the importance of addressing unresolved issues for smoother transitions at life's end. Her stories illustrate how healing through vulnerability supports forgiveness and transformation.

Key Takeaways:

• Trust Personal Experiences: Embrace signs as validations from spirit teams.
• Open Dialogue About Death: Encourage authentic communication even amidst difficult conversations.
• Healing Power in Vulnerability: Allow raw emotions to foster collective healing.
• Community Support Matters: Initiatives like No One Dies Alone (NODA) highlight crucial human connections at the end of life.

This episode weaves together insights about grief’s somatic manifestations alongside practical advice for processing loss—including meditation practices—and explores how openness can transform entrenched narratives hindering healing journeys.

This episode invites listeners to keep an open mind and heart and allow curiosity beyond skepticism to take root so that healing can occur, which is often experienced unexpectedly and in the most delightful ways. The universe (and our guides) have our backs and are waiting for us to co-create with them! 

RESOURCES:

• Book | Healing Whispers from Spirit Guides
• N.O.D.A (No One Dies Alone Foundation)
• Ep. 40 Chris Kerr | Death is But a Dream: End of Life Experiences
• Netflix Docuseries | Surviving Death
• Helping Parents Heal

CONNECT:

• Website

Transcript

Victoria Volk: Hello, and welcome to another episode of grieving voices. Thank you for being here and listening to today's guest, Helen Gretchen Jones. She is a death doula, intuitive, and channeler, who writes about shared death experiences in the essence of spiritual consciousness. Her writing focuses on fostering loving connections with oneself and others, and her work emphasizes, trusting, per personal experiences and the teachings she channels from her team and spirit known as the a team. Ellen holds a dual master's degree in art history and theology from Saint Edward's University. She's a certified and soundful therapy, rakie, hypnosis and past life regressions, and when she's not working with hospice patients, writing or teaching how it can be found on the family ranch hanging out with her husband, Taylor, their children, Ty and L, and managing all of their many animals. Thank you so much for being here.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here today.

Victoria Volk: It's been a little while since I've had someone who well, you didn't say you're a medium, but I kind of feel like that's a little bit of what you're talking about. Is that true?

Helen Gretchen Jones: It is. My friend gives me a hard time. She's a medium, and she goes, hi, can we just use the word? I use intuitive because I don't I don't know why. I guess I'm more comfortable with the word intuitive.

Victoria Volk: Okay. That's fair enough. It's been a while since I've had a medium on, but it seems like I was just telling somebody this not that long ago. I've had so many instances. Almost I I think actually almost every instance of recording with somebody, I go listen back to edit, and there is always this third voice.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh, how nice.

Victoria Volk: Comes in. And I remember one in particular. It was Becky Ellis. And she was talking about her dad, and there was she was sharing a story about her dad. And this very distinct male voice was in my recording that said, no.
And so when it happens, I share it with the guest, and they're never surprised. It seems but she's not a medium. And so but usually, it's been when there's been a medium. And so I'm kinda curious after I edit this one or when I go to edit this episode if there'll be somebody making their appearance in the recording. And I don't include it when it goes live. Actually, no. I do. It is. And when it goes live, but you don't hear it, I'm trying to think. You know, I'm I don't usually play back my recordings.
Like, I don't listen after

Helen Gretchen Jones: They better them. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. I do take out the piece and I save it to share with the guests, but yeah, I don't know if people can actually hear it because you know I think you've got to be because I don't hear it of course when we're recording and the guest doesn't hear it. Right? It's only when I play it back.

Helen Gretchen Jones: And, you know, I've done experiments with the voice recording where you listen for the voice through the editing process, and I've had voices come in during editing that I did not hear when I was recording.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. So you've had that experience.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Of

Victoria Volk: course, you've probably had that experience yourself. Yeah.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Well, I was intentionally testing for that, you know, just running experience and seeing. And on one, it was quite a lot. And some, of course, I don't hear anything. But

Victoria Volk: so when did this? This is a great lead to to when did you realize this gift that you had? And does it I was listening. I was watching this I don't know what it was on. It was a Oh, it's unsolved mysteries. Mhmm. I think on Netflix or whatever, and there was an episode about a guy that had this has this spirit that's been always with him since he was a child named Becky. And Like, she's, like, his a team. Like, you were kinda talking about, like, she's, like, on his team and helps him help people. He's only heard her actual voice one time and it was in the presence of somebody else and it was documented and it's pretty incredible episode actually. But when did you realize this gift that you had?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So I have been able to tune in for lack of a better word. I I would say connect. I've been able to connect to my team and spirit and to other spirits when I was very, very little four or five. I remember, I didn't know it was unusual at the time. It just felt like it was, I don't know, normal or commonplace, but it wasn't until I was probably twelve or thirteen. When I started realizing that it maybe wasn't normal when these experiences were shared. Like, people would be like, no. That didn't happen or no. That person wasn't actually there or I believe you believe that's what you saw. So then you start to kind of put it together that maybe other people aren't experiencing the same stuff and you have a you're out of fork in the road at that point. You can either believe that you're making it up and it's imagination completely or you can trust yourself and maybe recognize that not everybody is living or having the same experience at the same time. That's a hard age. It's a tough age. But for me, the experiences with my team and spirit and with spirit in general were so beautiful, so transformative, and we're desperately needed in challenging times. They made everything feel okay that when I would share it with my parents and they would say, I believe you believe that's what you saw. It didn't make me question my experience. It made me question the wisdom of my parents. And anyone else I shared. So I was the experiences were so transformative that it made me wonder if I could believe what they were saying. And also middle school, you know, that's also around the time when you're experiencing, you know, all your childhood make believe, your Santa Claus and your Easter bunny, and all tooth fairy, and all of those things. And so you start to see that maybe things that your parents are saying, maybe you need to trust your own experiences first.

Victoria Volk: Well, and how did that change, like, your friend like, did you have friends that you could share that your experiences with? Or were they, like, no. Just don't tell me about that stuff.

Helen Gretchen Jones: You know it's so funny. Most of them were a little more fearful, I think. And so I would keep it to myself, but what I couldn't understand was it wasn't fearful at all. It was beautiful and amazing and awesome. But I have some I have a high school friend that I'm still friends with that we, you know, kind of keep up through social media and on occasion when we see each other through big life events or something. Her name is Donna, and she told me recently, like, in the last couple of years,

Victoria Volk: she goes, yeah, I used to

Helen Gretchen Jones: say the weirdest things when you were little. My mom remembers it, like, when we so I guess I must have said stuff that they didn't make me feel uncomfortable about even though it struck them as odd.

Victoria Volk: Mhmm. When did you realize who your a team was? Like and when when you say when when I hear a team or when I read read a team, I was like, oh, yeah, mister t.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I know. No.

Victoria Volk: If you're that generation, but you know, is that how you came like, how did you come up with a team? First of all, I'm just curious.

Helen Gretchen Jones: That's so funny. So when I was decided that they were always a collective and certain personalities or voices would emerge from the collective, they always felt a bigger part of something, but sometimes I think humans need a physical appearance or a name or something that they can more readily connect to to make the, you know, bigger collective feel more approachable. So and relatable. So my collective is I they're a collective for sure, but sometimes individual personalities will kinda pull through like a wave pulling up from the ocean before coming back in to the collective. So I decided to call them a team. It was something that popped into my mind fairly recently. I think it might have been twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, just to give a name to the collective. And my husband was like, oh, the a team. Like, the, you know, the crime fighters from the nineteen eighties or something. It's so t. Yeah. So t. I've been in full. Right? That's what he would say. So I was like, what? I named them after, you know, like, I and I thought it was so lame after that. And I wanted to be something that was like, you know, that meant oneness or that, you know, that was more singular and that represented a collective. And so I told in a meditation, I was like, alright, guys. I chose a a lane name for you guys, pick something else, and I'm throwing the ball that's in your court, and I'll be waiting for that really great name that's gonna come through. And I went I left the house to take my cat to the vet and all the parking spot were being temporarily blocked by a dumpster that was being delivered to the vet clinic and it was olive green and in big bold white letters it said a team on the side. And I was just like I just left the house like ten minutes before So I was like, what? And it was in that moment that I had the knowing that a does mean singular or one in the English language, and it also infers that we are a team and they need me as much as I need them. So a team just stuck after that.

Victoria Volk: Oh, I love that story. I'm so glad I went there. But it brings up the synchronicities that we experience in life that we really don't often pay attention to and unless you have like this tuned inness Mhmm. About yourself. You probably will miss a lot of these synchronicities. What do you say to people who want to tune in more and learn who their team is and who their guides are? Like, what are some steps that people can take?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So I have a small group of women who come and sit with me and I co teach with another woman here in my town of Austin. We have a little thing that we kind of put together and we just talked about this. How can we receive signs and synchronicities more clearly because I receive them literally. They come in like there's no doubt, whereas my friend who's the medium, who gives me a hard time for not using the word medium. Her name is Keisha.
She doesn't get them like that. She doesn't get them like in your face signs, but she has she has a sudden knowing or a feeling of that makes sense when she sees something. For me, I ask for a sign in advance. So it's gonna be different for different people. For me, I say, okay, guys. I believe I just received a message from me that was pretty clear, but this is a big one and I need validation for this. You guys are gonna need to send me a sign. And then I just take a deep breath and I say, okay, and the sign is gonna be, and I let them place a sign in my head. It's usually comes through as a thought or an image. I let them pick it because they have a very broader perspective, like a a a bigger vantage point to see what I'm going to be experiencing in the next couple of days based on the choices I've made so far and the intentions behind the choices I am currently making.
So they're gonna place a little something in my mind. So if I chose, for example, I saw a symbol of a rose. Well, it's not gonna be some random person. It's gonna come and just hand me a rose on the street. I suppose that could happen.
But more likely, I'm gonna go through Starbucks and the person who's scanning my app is gonna be named Rose. Or if I go check out something at the grocery store, the person's gonna have a Rose tattoo on their arm. It's really not being dismissive of the little things. And when you can be that aware of those subtle synchronicities, Well, spirit gets real excited. They're like, yes, we got through.
Now, what else can we deliver? What else is she willing to see and recognize as part of, you know, a greater whole of what's happening around her? My friend, Keisha, She is different. She says, okay, I'm gonna wait for a sign. She doesn't ask them to tell her what it is. She's just going to go about her day and all of a sudden she's gonna feel, I think that's my sign. I think that's my knowing that this is validating the information that was coming through earlier. So I think it's gonna vary by person. I always tell my team I need a huge sign. Don't make me guess or second guess it. So I look for those very, very literal signs and I get them, which is amazing.

Victoria Volk: So I I'm a Reiki master. I do energy healing work. I work with Grievers. You know, I'm I I should be I feel like I should be more entuned. You know? I I feel like I've been frustrated because it's like I ask for specific signs, but I like how your approach is where you're just asking for the sign to be given to you. Like, what will be the sign? Yes. I like that approach and because I feel like it's it's caused me to feel doubtful of myself. It's caused me to feel unsure. And so but when I'm in a session with somebody and I'm working with their energy field and that feels very sure to me. You know, at the moment, you know, so that I can't it's difficult for me to reconcile, like, the stuff for myself. Like, what what you just talked about, that's where I'm struggling. And so I like your approach that you shared in how you do that. Mhmm. I might might try that for myself, so thank you for sharing that.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Sure. It was actually taught to me by someone else. By the way, I'm glad it's working out.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. So let's change the subject to grief because that's what whole podcast is about and what your work is about as I'm a death doula too, trained death.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh, fantastic. Okay.

Victoria Volk: But I have yet to figure out what that's gonna look like for me. And so I'm very anxious to hear how you've incorporated that into your work and how you support the living as a death doula. Right? So Yes. A lot of questions, a lot of things there. Let's put a pin in some of those. And hopefully, we don't forget what we want to talk about now. But so as a child, you mentioned that you very young age, you recognize this gift, but had you had a lot of death in your life and in your family? Around that time when you first discovered this? Was it family that was coming to you who had deceased? Or

Helen Gretchen Jones: It was in some cases, it was my for example, some of my grandmother's deceased relatives. She had a lot, you know, know, during the Great Depression, there were a lot of people having a lot of kids, and it was a different time back then. So she had lost some of her siblings. And I do remember some of them coming through. So even now, it's confusing to me when I insist in my memory that they were there for a family event, and they're like, no, they were deceased. But in my mind, they were there. I think when you're little, sometimes it's hard to differentiate. But I didn't start working with dying people until I didn't feel the need to, until after twenty fifteen. Twenty fifteen was when my father died. He was young. He was in his fifties. And it was relatively unexpected for the family. It was not unexpected for me, five months before his death, I had been given a vision of his death. And he was he had cirrhosis at the liver that was health related. And I think his death being so unexpected for specifically one of my sisters and for some of his siblings even. There was a lot of closure that didn't get a chance. There was so much stuff that was left unsaid and there was a lot of hurt and pain that people were holding on to from past actions. And and I thought, gosh, if when I heard about a death duel, I thought if there was any way that I could navigate someone else's deep loss like that and and help them not have all these things left unsaid. If I could help them to find closure, then that's what I wanna do. And so that's what led me down the path of being a death doula. And once I chose, went all in, I committed, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna help the people who are dying and the families. My gifts started to change and evolve towards that. Because before, I was doing more raky and sound bowl and it was a little bit more dealing on an individual basis what that person needed, especially some shock work, things like that. But once I moved into working with people who are dying, my gift started to evolve towards the people who are dying. So it shifted for sure.

Victoria Volk: So when you're so you work with the people who are dying,

Helen Gretchen Jones: I do, specific. And their families and their families and their family stuff.

Victoria Volk: Okay. What does that look like? I'm just curious for myself personally. Like, what does that look like? Is it, you know, helping them, yeah, I'll let you explain.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Sure. So it depends on who hires me, or I also do volunteer work. So it's both of All of that matters based on what you're working with. So if the family hires me, then usually means that the patient's a little more close minded to their process that's coming up for them, their dying process. If it's the patient that hires me, it's usually because they feel like the family hasn't come to terms with what they have come to terms with. And so it really depends on what direction I'm going to be going in, but ultimately you're working with both family and patient. It has been my experience so far that when the patient first receives a diagnosis of a terminal illness, then you're they're gonna be first able to fight it. What can I do to to live longer? How can I keep death at bay? Nobody ever wants to talk about death. It's such a taboo topic, especially in our western civilization. So we're looking at it's unlucky. Oh, don't say that. Oh, you know, that's not being positive. That's being negative. When in reality every single living being has to die. Every plant animal person, it doesn't matter, cells, molecules, everything transitions to a different state. So instead of focusing on it being a negative thing, a bad thing, a horrible thing. If we were to shift our perspective and really make it about this is what's happening, now how can we make it the best possible? You know? And yes, we're all gonna grieve. We're all going to feel sad about the physical loss of our loved one. Of course, that's part of the process. Nobody on this planet will not experience that. But knowing that we have to go through it, what's the best possible way to go through it and how can we heal hearts beforehand so that any of that pain and hurt doesn't have to continue to shape the lives of those left behind. So that's really what I'm doing. And that's on a case by case basis. So sometimes when a purse oh, I guess I go back to what I said. I'm so sorry. I kinda got off topic a little bit. First, we're really angry, and we try to fix it and keep it at bay. And But once we accept that this is happening, that's when fear sets in. People feel fearful over the process of dying. And they they then look for a little bit of control. What can I control now? So they start to do their paperwork. They start to I want you to have this, I want you to have that, I want this person to come, I want this, you know, they start to try to control their environment. And then in the last week or two before death, that's when we start to see some pretty amazing things. We start to see Our loved one who's dying starts to see people who are coming that have already transitioned. They start to see beings of light. And the reason that this is important and should not be considered something to be medicated or that we need to convince them is not actually happening. The reason this is important is because that removes the fear that people have around death. When they start to have a foot in both worlds, they start to see that they're not alone, and it's okay for them not to be fearful of the next space and someone's coming in and slowly introducing the next phase to them so that they're comfortable when the time comes. It's really a really amazing important phase. And in addition to that, it gives the loved ones hope that there is something more.
So All of these phases are really important in the in the dying process. And as a death doula, when you're there, you're navigating each individual phase and meeting the person right where they're at with the ultimate goal of peace.

Victoria Volk: Had a guest. His name is Chris Kerr, and he had written a book. He works with hospice patients. And he had has done a lot of research on the dying process and wrote a book. Death is about a dream, and he had a very interesting take on it. And he was actually part of the Netflix documentary or series surviving death.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh.

Victoria Volk: So I've had a lot of different types of people on this show. But in your personal experience though with your dad, when you learn that information, like, did you keep it to yourself? Did you share it? Or

Helen Gretchen Jones: So when I my dad's death was the first close family death because it's your parent. And when I received that vision, it was my first vision that I've received as someone dying. And I journaled it because I was, you know, always journaling and meditating doing doing doing things like that. I told my husband and a neighbor about it, and then I let it go. In the vision, me, my dad was in a hospital bed, And he was his by the way, let me just say, my dad was a good old boy. He lived out on a ranch all alone with his dog. You know, he didn't want any kind of he wanted to be off the grid. I mean, he was you know. Okay. So he was buried Texan, buried. And so his biggest fear, one time he told me, I found out that he hadn't told his sister or any of my sisters about it either or his mom or anybody. Was that he feared dying alone and that nobody would find him for days. So when I had my vision and he had die was dying in a hospital, that was an unusual thing for him because, yeah, my dad would not have just gone to the doctor of the hospital. He was out on the land. So he was in the hospital. There was a number five flashing above his head. The hospital walls were this bluish green color, and he he was young still in in that vision. And my daughter who was just a baby. I mean, she was a little at that four or five, I think. And she was holding my hand and she looked to be the same age and I thought he's gonna be dying soon. So I journaled it he'd been he'd been staying with me in Austin, which is where I'm at, and he he lived down South Texas. And he'd been drinking all day. He kept extending his stay because he couldn't get behind the wheel to drive. He was watching politics really loud. He was a smoker. My backyard was littered with cigarette butts. He brought his dog. I had cats. It was just kind of a chaotic mess and I didn't want him to feel unwelcomed, but it was very, very frustrating for me at that time. Of course, I love my dad, but it wasn't an enjoyable experience, I should say. So by the and that's when that vision happened. So I was really kind of focused on how can I get my dad to go back home? And this is, you know, really certain that the quality of that of of my family, now my children, my husband, it was I mean, it was a chaotic time. And the holidays were coming. The kids were starting school. I had a lot going on, so I just pushed that vision aside. It was my first vision. How do I know if it's right? I wrote it down, told a couple of people that was it. Well, five months later, on February fifth of twenty fifteen, all those fives, while he was in his fifties, the whole thing started at five o'clock in the morning. He was in rehab. He'd agreed to go to rehab at Christmas, and he was in rehab, and they found him kind of out of it in his room, took him to a hospital. And that's the only way he would have ever been in a hospital. And sure enough, we get there. The hospital has blueish green walls, and it's all unfolding exactly as the vision. And I needed someone to watch my daughter because it was a two hours away and my neighbor called my neighbor said, can you get my daughter for school? And she was like, remember that vision you had? I was like, oh my gosh. She was the one that reminded me about it. And so since then, now that I work with people who are dying, I do get ballparks on on people's death. Ballparks, not like February fifth at five AM, nothing like that. It's gonna be it's just like three weeks. You know, approximately two and a half years. I've got one that's approximately four years. So I do get these ballparks on people now, but that gift is new since I started working with people who are

Victoria Volk: dying. Wow.

Helen Gretchen Jones: But when I first got it, I just wanna share. When I first got it, I thought, am I supposed to stop it? Now I felt this responsibility. Was this but that's what movies teach you. You know? They're just like, oh, someone got a vision. They have to go stop. Someone's No. It's my belief and that could change, right, based on experiences. I'm always trying to see what what I'm interpreting is correct or not. But it's my belief that when a soul decides to die, then I'm able to pick up on that wave or that packet of information that's already out there. When that soul has decided. So while the personality of my dad may not have decided to die, he wouldn't have wanted that. On a soul level, he did. And so when that soul made that choice, that's when I was able to receive that information. So I believe someone that is close to me now when I got I was cooking spaghetti and came right over me four years. I'm just like, so on the soul level that person has made the choice even though their personality has not. So, yeah, that's I hope I answered your question.

Victoria Volk: I feel like I'm in a trance just watching and listening. That's fascinating. I don't know how I would feel with that information, like, what do you do with it?

Helen Gretchen Jones: What's so interesting is his mom, my grandmother, after my dad died, I told her about the vision. And she was like, if you ever get one on me, you better tell me. Most people tell me if you ever get one on me, do not tell me. Right? So shortly after that, I did get one on her. And I I got it in December, and I was like, oh my gosh. Do I tell her, you know, do I I had a real knot in my stomach about it. And she's a loved one too. She is. She is. And she told me to tell her. And so but I was really struggling with this because at that point, I was believing that by telling someone to you then, is it like, like a Shakespeare play? Are you making it happen? Because now you're putting it in their their field and it's gonna You know what I mean? So I was really struggling with what does it mean to have a vision. And so I went ahead and told her and she she did die within two and a half years just like the vision. I think it was eighteen months. I think now I can't remember what the vision was. I'd have to go back to my journals and look. Was it two years or eighteen? I said maybe eighteen months to twenty four months. I can't remember now, but she hit the mark. And I was just like you've got to be kidding me. Is it because I told her? Is it because And so I struggled with that.
Now though, like I mentioned earlier, I believe it is when a soul decides that's how I'm It's not my responsibility

Victoria Volk: Mhmm.

Helen Gretchen Jones: At all. But what it does is allow me to prepare the people around them and that person or their big transition. So what would have been nice had I insisted one of my sisters come with me to family weekend when my dad was in rehab and knowing that my dad had a shortened time and really allow her to express how she was feeling and her hurt and pain and allow him to at least have the opportunity to work through some of that. Same with my grandmother because we knew she got cancer shortly after. We were able to work through that.
She had all of her stuff, her all her ducks in a row, she said everything she wanted to say, everybody said their final good buys because they were expecting it. So I think that's why I'm given that information now is because on a choice I've made to work with people who are dying. So now it's like, I don't have to tell anyone what their ballpark is. That's not the important part. The important part is to allow me to have a time frame in which to work with them or their families bring about the greatest amount of peace for the transition.

Victoria Volk: Full body chills. Let me ask you this. So having this gift as a child and growing into your teens in adulthood, so your perspective of grief is obviously very different from everybody else around you. And you said that, you know, it was like it challenged you to believe your parents and what they were telling you. Like, I believe it happened to you. But, you know, what were the things about grief that you that people were telling you that you didn't believe and what has your grief with your father and the work that you're doing, what has that all taught you now?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So I'll start with my dad and then I'll talk about my childhood. So my dad's the grief around my dad was profound and that was I probably was I call it a funk. I wouldn't say it was a full on depression, but after his death and parents are supposed to go before their kids. I felt like I had a good relationship with my dad. Like, there was no reason for me to feel that way.
But I think I was also processing the grief of the family. The grief of the family was deep, and my grief was profound, but I have to say that his death was the catalyst to me helping other people through their grieving processes. So it's been a very important of death that has and he comes through, you know, he's a better communicator in death than he ever was in life. Mhmm. So this has also been a process for him. So even though he has transitioned to a different state, of being his molecules or moving a little different faster rate than ours. I think this has given him the opportunity to move through his process. We don't just it's been my experience so far that we don't just die and suddenly everything's fixed. Everything is perfect and we're suddenly all knowing. It's nothing like that. We have a higher perspective. We have a greater understanding. We recognize how our actions affected those around us. And I think that working with me now, my dad has the opportunity to sort of work through what he feels was maybe causing grief to the people he'd left behind based on his action. This is an opportunity for him to sort of heal some of that with us left behind. And so in that way, my grief and the grief of the family has been very important into serving other people who are working through grief, growing up. And I think that this is not uncommon. I hear it all the time. People who have had challenging upbringings, you know, moved around a lot. Maybe my mom got married a lot, and we lived with our grandmother half the time. And so there was a lot of emotional and mental patterns that needed to be broken, a lot of cycles that needed to be broken through my my mom and her parents and different things like that. So they were dealing with constant grief, regrets, and and challenges on their own, which affected how their children were being raised. Luckily for me, I had my team in spirit who would come in because, you know, in order to get a little bit of peace, I would go sit in an empty bathtub and close the door as a little kid, and that's where I would find a loan time. And I could just focus on the silence. And it was at that time, sometimes, not every time that my team would come in and they would they would never tell me, you know, they would always tell me everything's gonna be okay, but they would never tell me what I was seeing or witnessing, but they would suggest other perspectives to help me understand perhaps. The decisions behind my parents and grandparents. And that would help me realize that maybe it isn't all about me. When when you're a kid, everything's about you, you have to be or you wouldn't survive. Right? So and you start to recognize their own hurt and their pain. And it was maybe more of a gift for me to be able to see that early on because of the suggestions from my team and spirit. But there's a lot of grief in my family that needed to be worked through. And so I feel like maybe perhaps there's a lot of just grief that is around me, and so I'm being given an opportunity to help other people find peace in that.

Victoria Volk: I had another guest. She was a medium. That once said that there was a parent that had lost a child and the child had died by suicide. And the child came to the parent through this medium. And she said, you know, told this mother that he's in school. Like, that's how he described it. Like, he was in school. And so when you were talking about how your father is, like, he's through you. Is that right? He's kinda working through his transgressions as in things that he did maybe to others in the physical plane. Like, it's his school. Like, that makes me think of that. Is that how it comes to you or how you would describe those on the other side kind of describe it as well?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yeah. Actually, when you mentioned that, so when I sit with other people for an intuitive reading and their loved ones come through almost every single time, they show me classes. And it's such an interesting thing because you're thinking, oh, like, classes, but you that's literally what it looks like. It looks like classrooms. It looks like gatherings on green lawns. Even like it's gatherings of people with an instructor or some person who has experience in that one field. So one of the things my dad has shown me would be communication. And working with how to communicate more effectively, how to communicate cross, you know, more I don't know what that would be, like, from physical to non physical dimensions. People have shown me I have one client whose mom showed me that she was studying the stars. And I know that sounds kind of silly or just like the like astronomy or, you know, like, but yes, apparently there's some there she's showing me studying celestial bodies of some sort. And this was an interest that she was kind of moving her soul into that direction for a little while. And I do, I see it as classrooms. But these are not like our classrooms that we have here. They're just so much more hands on and they're they feel huge. And they feel connected and they feel just expansive. So, yeah, it's like a school even over there, classrooms and learning potentials and how awesome is that, or we'd get so crazy bored just playing a harp on the cloud somewhere.

Victoria Volk: So what do you think is the most frustrating in your experience that people who are trying to communicate with us on the physical plane? What what are the frustrations that you receive?

Helen Gretchen Jones: That people in spirit are having?

Victoria Volk: Yeah.

Helen Gretchen Jones: That we're dismissive, that we dismiss signs, that we don't allow. There's okay. Well, here's another thing. That we don't allow. We dismiss imagination as make believe instead of allowing our imaginations. Like, we're here as humans on this planet. We came here to experience this physical reality And part of the best thing about being human is we get to create and co create our experience on this planet. That is like like, that's like the best part about being here. So your your mindset, your thoughts, your perspective, your choices, your everything is co creating your experience here. So in order for that to happen, you have to come up with an idea or set an intention or imagine it. But when you we have the setup thing that imagination is pretend and it's not thoughts create things. They create worlds. So when you're sitting here wanting to connect to spirit and you're imagining sitting on a park bench in New York or whatever you want to do through a guided hypnosis or meditation, and you say, okay, I like a loved one or one of my guides to come sit next to me on this bench and then they do and then they give you a message and you're like, that's nice, but I imagined all of that because I wanted it and I created it and we dismiss the cocreation with spirit. Spirit's like great. She's setting up a bench in New York for me to come sit on. I'm gonna do it and now she's gonna dismiss it because she thinks she's completely imagining it instead of reframing imagination instead of his make believe but calling it co creation with Spirit.

Victoria Volk: I love that. I love that. Got it. Maybe you think of something else and then it slipped my mind now. Maybe you know what it was.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I just I just I I hope that anyone who hears this would consider doing a guided meditation or a hypnosis session, whatever works best for you. And to realize that all these words that we put on it, like, it's a hypnosis session, it's a, you know, raky event, which is, you know, an energy healing, doesn't matter what you call it. It's what the intention you place behind it. Words can be just semantics because once we put a label on something, we limit it, you know, anyway. So just know that you're here creating this world And if you choose to connect to your team and spirit or to god or to angels or whoever, then do it and don't dismiss it, write it down. And you'll start to recognize that discernment will strengthen. You'll start to be able to interpret messages more strongly. And less through the filter of your human mind. It's a fantastic way to connect.

Victoria Volk: So how can we connect to our team? How do we know who our team is? How do you

Helen Gretchen Jones: think about that?

Victoria Volk: Who is your team?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So okay. So my team is a very large collective, and it's a group of, you know, angelics, ascended masters, ancestors, alternate dimensional beings, aliens, like it doesn't matter. It's whatever physical body you wanna put them in, it doesn't matter. But for me, I like having a physical archetype body that can step forward in my thoughts as a way of connecting. So there's a few that have come through pretty regularly more than Sometimes I'll just see one one time and that's it. But I have one whose name is LIRA. I heard her name LIRA or LIRA LIRA LIRA and she always comes through as this blue light. So sometimes she looks elderly, sometimes she looks young, but she's blue. I was like, okay, I just focused one night on meeting one of them, and she was the first one that comes through and I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna need sign this week. I'm gonna need to hear your name three times for me to know if that's really your name and that's gonna be something I can all week long. That's what I'm gonna need. And it happened. So I had a friend come up and talk to me. Guess what I just learned about the constellations. There's constellation. They mentioned the Leerink constellation or, you know, something like that. And I was like, I didn't really need to hear that whole conversation about the constellations, but it was important that I heard that name mentioned. Then there was another someone said, hey, I'm sending you an audiobook you need to listen to was my neighbor. And the opening credits was talking about someone named LIRA. And I was just like, oh, okay. There's never I didn't even read the book. I only think I needed to hear the opening credits. And then a third person was I was having a session done, and she goes, you have a guy named LIRA. So I know that now that's like an actual intuitive coming in. And but it was and I was like, I do. And you're the third third validation. And then another one, and this is a strange one. It's a guy named kissinger. K? I only know of one kissinger, and he's still alive, and he's a political figure. And but that was the name that I heard. And I was like, okay. That is so lame. Like, I even looked at what kissinger meant, and it's like farm or bOG or something. It wasn't something that meant like, you know, I don't even know what I was looking for, but kissinger was not it. But I was like, alright, guys, three times you know the rule. Right? Well, I got it three times in one night. I had gone before bed, I'd gone to Barnes and Noble's. And apparently, there was a right when he walked in a whole display.
I guess, kissinger had done a book or something fairly, like, in the last seven or eight years or something. And there was a display right when I walked in. I wasn't even gonna go to Barnes and Noble's. It was right by Old Navy, and I just swung by because I had some extra time to kill. Okay. So anyway, so there it was. Okay. And then I go home, I'm like, fine. Okay. I go home. I literally lay down in bed and just turn on the TV person that pops up is a is a documentary on. Kissinger. I was like, that's two, you guys. And then my husband and I run a photography rental business. I'm I'm in the studio now. And somebody texted me, hey, do you have this and this and this equipment? And one of the words was kissinger. And they said, that's so weird. It corrected. Auto corrected it. I meant the word to be profoto, which is nowhere near the word kissinger. Yeah. So I was like, that was my third one. So I got kissinger all in one day. So I'm like, okay.
I called one of my guys kissinger. So anyway,

Victoria Volk: that's very unique names too, by the way. Like, very unique, like, LIRA and kissinger. Like, under so weird. You know.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Right. But I asked for validation, and I said I needed to hear it three times in the week. And then I didn't start trying to connect to an individual guide until the other one was confirmed. So that's how I did it. And there are people I frequently see people's guides, and so I can connect people to their guides. And I have several people who are intuitive to do the same thing with guides. But my thought is to come up with your own name. You can call them whatever you want. Call them Frank. And then they will make sure Frank is validated three times because they don't care what you call them. The most important thing is that you're willing to connect to them and that you interpret their message and their messages are always beautiful.

Victoria Volk: So is your dad part of the a team? Or is he just kind of a special guy that just that you choose when you connect to? Or is he kind of like, no, I wanna connect with you now. This is we would need to have this conversation now.

Helen Gretchen Jones: That's really interesting. And I would be I would love to hear other people's feedback on their experience around this. I have found that when people transition, they're really loud and clear and available very frequently the first year. Then after that, it's like they're kinda like, alright, I'm ready to go start my own class, my own stuff, you know, which I know time isn't linear over there. So at least I understand that to be the case. So in that, why is it a year? It just seems to be that people tend maybe because weren't they don't they're not needed as much. That first year after someone dies, we're constantly reaching out to them on a heart level, you know, grieving them. And so maybe that's why they're around so much. So if my dad pops in, I call them a part of a team, but he's he comes and goes. I have some that are more static. But for the most case, a lot of my collective that's why I like to call them a collective is because they're not they come and go as as as I need.

Victoria Volk: Just this morning, I was watching the news and Well, last night, there was the Dodgers and Yankee's game. And so on the news this morning, it was all about the Dodgers player. And I don't know all the names. I don't even remember, but it and it doesn't matter. I wanna speak to the synchronicity of it.
And I was just, like, sitting there, like, And I'm wondering if anybody else is watching this like, wow, that is really crazy and synchronistic. But I picked up on it. It's the the dodger that he hit a grand slam home run run through like last night. First time in is it the first time in World Series history? I'm not sure. I don't think so. Because the last time it happened, I think, was another dodger. However, many years ago, many, many years ago, who had a limp leg just like this dodger. And it happened at I can't even remember the time right now. I should have written it down, but it was, like, a minute, within a minute apart.
The grand slam, like, both of them. Like,

Helen Gretchen Jones: this domestic.

Victoria Volk: And it was like and I don't know if the other dodger is passed on by now. I I would assume he has. I'm not even sure. I'm gonna have to go down rabbit hole on that. But it just was fascinating to me. Like, there there is something about that that just caught my attention. You know?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I think if it catches your attention, then you should go down that rabbit hole a little bit because I think that plays into your general awareness of synchronicities. And so maybe someone's trying to get your attention as well.

Victoria Volk: That could be interesting. So have you gotten a ballpark on yourself?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I have not. That's a really good question. But when I sit down to do meditations, they tell me that this is a short life. This is a they always say, dear one, young one, something like that. They Dear child, whatever.
They But they tell me that this is a short life for me. So I either have to acknowledge that it's a short life because I'm human. And this relatively speaking is a short life, or I could go tomorrow. So knowing that this is a short life and that perhaps on a soul level, maybe I've already made that choice and I'm not aware of it. Yeah. I mean, it could happen. I can get diagnosed next year, like who knows tomorrow? I don't know. So I I try to live each day in the flow. I ask myself, am I in the flow of where I wanna be right now? What is the most exciting thing that's lined up for my day? That's what I'm gonna choose first. And so, like, if you're at home, like, I got to have a day, I think, last Thursday, which was housecleaning day, that sounds kind of lame, but gosh, I feel good when it's done. And so I just kind of looked at all the chores which one do I wanna do first? Which one excites me the most? You know? And I would just do that one first. It doesn't have to be like you're always going to the club or, you know, doing something profound like writing a book or reaching out at a seminar. It didn't have to be that way to seek excitement your day. For me, laundry was the least exciting thing it got saved at the end. But but what was most exciting was for me, unloading the dishwasher and loading it. That was the first thing I started with. So it can be even the little thing. So if I find that I'm in the flow of life, that sort of dictates where I'm going because I do believe my life here will be short.

Victoria Volk: So how have you utilize this gift in your life personally? Through personal endeavors, careers, relationships, and how has that shifted from probably your teen years? Well, even maybe young adult years to to now.

Helen Gretchen Jones: So it shifted a lot actually, but I'm going to give a lot of credit to my team and spirit, or I'm going to give credit to myself for being open to the teachings from my team and spirit. I can say that as well because it's easy to dismiss. That can be subtle sometimes. But when you're first born and you're a kid and you're a teenager, you are so self centered. You have to be for survival. You are recognizing the patterns of your family. You're looking to see how you can fit in the most how you could stay out of trouble the most, you know, what what lies is an okay thing to do and not everything is based on observing your surroundings, changing your self to fit in both at school and at home and on every level. And all of that is part of the growing up process and trying to figure out who you are in this big old jumble of personalities. So it wasn't until I was a young adult doing everything I thought I was supposed to be doing. Because what everybody else told me I should do, which was, you know, graduate high school, go to college, get married, have kids. I mean, it's just kinda like you do what you're told, what everybody else's dreams are. And if something happens in your early adulthood, where you start to recognize that you're different than how you've maybe allowed yourself to be this whole time. And my team and spirit, that's when they started coming around when I was in my early twenties and trying to really force compassion. And compassion is something that's really hard to have unless it's like a beloved person or animal that you've lost in childhood because you are so self centered and you have to be in order to survive and thrive. So when my team started pushing compassion, they would say, put yourself in their shoes, but not how you would do things differently, not how you would change it, not what you would have done to fix it, or what you could do to fix it just be. Just be in their shoes and experience what they're experiencing. And that quickly takes you out of that me me me mindset. You know? And so I think that was important to moving me through upcoming grief understanding other people's grief and having sympathy for that and helping me to navigate who I am as a person and be more understanding to who everybody else is and less judgmental because man, it's easy to judge others because you always think you have the I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have done something differently, but that is the mindset of someone who is twenty five and younger. No. But it's time to move past that when you're no longer a child. And you can make your own choices and it's important to consider how you fit in the other part of this world without having to compromise who you are.

Victoria Volk: Would you say that as a child and as an adult, you as a person are an empath or highly sensitive because I I always thought they were kind of the same, but they're not, like in a highly sensitive person isn't necessarily an empath, but an empath is always highly sensitive is what I've learned. What are your thoughts around that? And I think as a child for me personally, and because when I was listening to you speak, that was something I think that came natural to me. Like, I felt everybody's stuff so much. Almost too much. I didn't know what to do with it. I had to I lost my father when I was eight. My grandmother the year before that, there was just a lot of stuff and chaos in my life. And so it was like I needed a lot of sleep. It was like a curse to me. It was really was a curse. And so what what would you say to that? Like, what was your experience around that? And, you know, would you consider yourself an empath?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I wouldn't have my sister was extremely empathic and sensitive. I would say she still is. And like you, she slept a lot. She couldn't it made life feel so overwhelming sometimes for her, and she's still very much that way. And she kind of scooby doo's. That's what I call it when you're just kind of running in one spot, but don't go anywhere. You know, you're kinda like in a rut a little bit. So she has a tendency to do that based on her feelings and the feelings of everybody else around her can be so overwhelming. She's extremely sensitive in that way. I was more walls up, put up walls, put up shielding and really kept myself from being overly involved because I couldn't trust. I couldn't trust that we weren't gonna be moving tomorrow. I couldn't trust that the person that my mom recently married is gonna staying around. And so I never allowed myself to indulge in the feelings of other people and hardly let myself do it for myself, you know. And so luckily allowing my team to come in and help me better understand the perspectives of why choices were being made when I couldn't understand, kept me from some of that. Also, I don't know, but I wonder if having a sibling who I was close to and living with, who was processing everybody else's emotions along with hers. If that gave me the grace to not have to. And I think that frequently with healers, I find that many of them are sensitive and empathic because they are able to clear other people's energy by kind of processing it through themselves also. When they don't know how to move it without processing it when they're early on. And I think my sister's probably a healer who doesn't do anything with it because it she's so kind of overwhelmed by her stuff. I'm more of a teacher. And while I think everyone's a teacher and a student, I think that you're not always a healer if you're a teacher, and you're not always teaching if you're a healer, but you can.

Victoria Volk: I love that. Yeah. And that's where energy healing you know, I have I heard Ricky three times.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh, and you're like, that's what I'm doing.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. I I'm gonna look go down that rabbit hole. Yeah. It's been a series of rabbit holes in the last, probably, six years. And the exponential growth I've had because of it of being open to hearing things repeatedly or going down these rabbit holes. And I always think of it as like this download or intuitive thought or curiosity that, like, drops in and then I follow it. And that's just how it has appeared to me, but it's never been, like, this direct it hasn't felt like a direct communication. I think that's what's lacking for me. And that's where my frustration is.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I mean, that's pretty direct to hear Ricky three times. How does he do it?

Victoria Volk: That is that I guess I want more of it. You know, I want to be able to utilize that openness for myself as much as I've utilized it for other people. And I think that's kind of I think I'm at the point where it's like, okay, I want this from my own self. I want You know what I mean?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Because I didn't

Victoria Volk: grew up as being an emotional caretaker for everybody else, and I've always often been that. And so now it's like, alright, let's go. I want I want I

Helen Gretchen Jones: that's so funny.

Victoria Volk: I mean,

Helen Gretchen Jones: Do you have siblings?

Victoria Volk: I do. I'm the youngest.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Do you feel like I'm just curious now. And do you feel like you were more sensitive than the rest of them? Yes. Do you feel like you possibly processed some of the family's emotions through some of those challenges and trying times, whereas they didn't have to because you were doing it for them.

Victoria Volk: I never thought of it that way, but

Helen Gretchen Jones: some didn't think about it. I don't know. I feel like my sister may have done that for me and unknowingly, and I hadn't thought about it till today. Actually, but I feel like that's maybe something that happened.

Victoria Volk: Why else can we go with this? Because I I could talk all day. Are you how are you on time?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I'm good. I'm good. We're just I don't know. We're just kinda going back and forth.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. I feel like we're talking about a lot of different things. I have a series of questions that I have on my form, and I do wanna get to I wanna I wanna ask these because I feel like I want my listeners to get what they need to receive to from this. And from your experience of your own growth in grief, in working with others, in theirs. What would you what would be the piece of advice? And you you've shared a lot, but what is one thing that you were feeling guided to share in terms of I just received this diagnosis or my loved one just received this diagnosis or the flip side of that, there was no warning at all. What is the approach that you would suggest for both of those scenarios? I don't even know what the question is. Really, what do you wanna say about that? Because it's like, how do you connect in those circumstances? I don't even know what the question is. So however you interpret me at I don't know. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore.

Helen Gretchen Jones: So here's how I would interpret that. If someone is given a diagnosis and they're like you're it has spread everywhere you've literally got weeks, that's a very scary thing. And if there's someone out there who has a family member or the they're themselves have they've just been given that diagnosis or that prognosis, then I would suggest with everything that you are to open up that bag and just say I'm going to just for one week allow myself to do this and I'm going to I'm going to say the things that I need never said, that needed to be said. And I'm even if it's hurtful, I'm gonna say it in the kindest way possible. And I'm going to clear the air. And a lot of people find that it's really hard to do that because they don't want to say it to someone who is dying. They're about to die anyway. You know what I mean? That's what they say. They're about to die anyway.
Why would I hurt them? They don't have much time left? It isn't about hurting. It's about processing those emotions beforehand. And in my experience, whenever someone has been giving it any kind of diagnosis, whether they have months or weeks or less than that, when they allow themselves to say what they really need to say or they allow themselves to hear what hasn't been said yet. It's like a wait is lifted. It hurts in the moment because there's some regrets usually around that, but quite honestly, There's regrets around it because it's been hurting for a long time. And it's being pushed down and pushed down and people think that they ignore it, it'll just eventually, you know, smooth itself out. It doesn't. It lingers. But once they say it, it's like They can exhale, they can breathe again, and it's sort of like giving permission to the person who's dying to go, that when they do die, it's okay. I used to think that when I was there helping these families who are really navigating hurt and pain and resentment through their grief and loss, then I needed to be the strong one. And so I I thought I needed to not cry. And I needed to hold it all in and push it down and be the strong one like I'm some kind of amazing emotional person that could just process this and then everybody just, you know, I can just direct how everyone else needs to behave. But I found that one time I couldn't do it and I broke down and I cried. I I couldn't. I loved this person they were with me for a long time. And I broke down and I cried. And when I did, it's like it was permission for everybody else. The family broke down and cried. And we think that we have to hold it all together. I mean, just imagine that holding it all together is so so much resistance. There's tightness. There's there's no flow in it. But when you let it go and you let go of whatever you think people are gonna think about you for crying, for being vulnerable, for being open, it never works that way. People actually open up and become vulnerable themselves. And these people cry, they release whatever that pent up stuff is, that energy, and it makes it easier for them to say the things kindly that they always wanted to say. And so if you allow yourself to be authentically vulnerable, in those moments. That's where you can flow through the grief, the hurt, and the pain in the resentment, no matter how much time this person has left. And I encourage everyone to allow themselves even if it's just one day. Today is my vulnerable day. That's what I would suggest.

Victoria Volk: And what about for those who didn't have that opportunity?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Like my sister, one of my sisters. So for people who didn't have that opportunity, if they're okay. So this has happened or with with many of my clients actually, people who refuse to come in with the rest of the family, this this has happened before. And first, I would take into account what their religious and faith based belief systems are. So unless they're atheist, including agnostics, they've leaving something, they just don't know what it is. So unless they're atheist, every faith based belief system believes that there is something more after death. Some know what it is, some don't. K? That's their belief. So I would navigate the grief through their belief systems. So if someone believes that there is an afterlife, then we start there. We start with this is not the final goodbye. We know that there's something more. Years what you missed bedside, oftentimes there's some spiritual experiences with beings of light, angelics, whatever it is. I would teach that oftentimes our loved ones will come in dreams and to be open and available to that. Depending on the person that I'm working with, I would also suggest a medium. And I know this is a nontraditional approach, but there are some pretty fantastic certified triple blind tested through university studies and there's lists of these people. It's a short list, you know, but, I mean, maybe a hundred, but they're out there. These people are so phenomenal. And you get on their waitlist. There's usually waitlist that could be six months, it could be a year, but here's what I know. You're gonna have to go through that six months or that year anyway. And all of a sudden, this opening shows up at the right time when you need it the most and sometimes there's cancellations to move up the list, whatever. But you put yourself on that list and all of my experiences. And I know this sounds to say all, but I mean all of the people that I've worked with who have also worked with a medium. Say that the medium was able to bring them more closure, more more joy, more hope, and more connection than months with a therapist. So and I'm not there's a place for therapy of absolutely especially processing your emotions through the physical body, it's very, very important. But having that connection with your loved one and spirit authenticated and validated and being able to feel like they're right here with you once again because they are and there are people out there who can perceive those energies. It's very very healing, and it really moves you through that grief process, a little more lighthearted and a little bit more expansive than you were going into it.

Victoria Volk: What about those? Because you you kind of interpreted it as like someone who didn't come into the room? But what if they're in an event of an accident where nobody had where there wasn't a chance, there wasn't a diagnosis. It was very sudden,

Helen Gretchen Jones: like an accident. In that case, I would recommend the same thing. I would say, there's so much healing. I know you probably know this, but if there's anyone who hasn't ever seen a medium, a really good medium, and I know that there are scammers out there, but there are scammers in every field. There are really bad doctors. There are really bad lawyers. There are really bad salesman and businessman. And there there's going to be people who take advantage of people in all every field of work in industry. However, there are some really good ones out there who are on amazing websites that can really get you involved. There's a Actually, this is kind of important to share. It's a healing thing. There is a website, an organization called helping parents heal. Have you ever heard of them?

Victoria Volk: I have not.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Okay. Helping parents heal. It's for people who have lost children. And it doesn't matter the age of your child. But they have incredible gatherings. They have they've even done little branch off groups for fathers who have lost mothers who have lost siblings who have lost these people who are processing the grief of losing a child. And they bring in these big events that are just for helping parents heal families and they bring in mediums, the certified authenticated mediums who do group readings for these people and all of them say, my child was there. They knew things about my child that, you know, and then they tell you what the child's doing now. And, you know, you get these experiences are often validated by the children in spirit. If you're open to those signs, you know.
So it's some of the most beautiful experiences, but they have a website with a list of mediums. So if anyone's out there interested, I know I'm pushing the medium route, but I can tell you I know how non traditional it is, but how healing and processing that grief it can be. Even for people in accidents.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. I've heard that myself from people who've experienced mediums too. Yes. So you have this gift. Certainly, it helped you process your grief.
But what were some of the other ways and things that you discovered that helped you and worked for you, spirit guides aside? And maybe they probably actually came in and said, hey, you need to do this or you need to do that or this might help you or

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yes. And I do have some things that I do that are self care that help me move through grief because when you're working as a death doula, you grieve the loss of the people that you formed connections with. I had one patient. I had he was on hospice for five years and I worked with him for four of them. I loved him deeply.
So you do. You do process a lot of grief as a death doula. And it's kind of hard for the course, really. One thing that really helps me process that grief, and I don't know what it is, but submerging myself in water, so like a bath. It's like the field or the energy field around me. It's like when everything gets submerged, it's like it stops crackling or it stops. It's like it all those little molecules or something. I don't even know because I don't know science. So I majored in art and religion. So it just all it's like it somehow thizzles everything out. So for me, it's submerging in water and that really, and it resets me, it grounds me, and it sort of helps me to take a breath, reevaluate where I am in this very present moment and recognize that everything is okay in this moment. It doesn't take away my grief. But it certainly helps me to feel more in my body, grounded, and just present. And that helps. Another thing that I find is really really helpful is when I feel it in my body almost like anxiety like they're too much moving through me is to move my body.
So I go on a brisk walk because if I run, I will I'm, you know, I'm not that fit. So I don't need to be running, but I do a brisk walk or something and it feels like it shakes it out of me. And that's really helpful too. So I encourage anyone to physically move. I don't do this, but I've had several people say that this has been very helpful for them. And it's something called, I'm a get I hope I'm getting it right, a screen pillow. It's a pillow that they scream into. It's like they put it over their face, like they're smothering themselves, and they just scream, and they let it all out, and they have to do it a few times, and that's sort of like purging that energy that's been pent up through that kind of throat and solar plexus area of the body where it can feel like you've got knots through this grief. You know, how do we get it out you know, and so sometimes screaming is like a level of communication because you're using your voice, but it's a way of moving that energy out. I haven't tried it, but I've heard good things about the screen pillow.

Victoria Volk: Well, I think, you know, in terms of anger, it's very effective, probably, and safe, and non harming. Right. I recommend, you know, why not? You have nothing to lose. It's worth a try. Actually, I found myself just doing that not that long ago. So, you know, when you're

Helen Gretchen Jones: with the

Victoria Volk: yeah. When you're angry, I mean, yeah. You know, even if it's a cuss word, you know, which may or may not have been my the case for myself.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Like, password or two.

Victoria Volk: Just see what you gotta do. Right? No. That's a great actually, that has never been suggested in the podcast. So

Helen Gretchen Jones: I will say one more thing. For me, one thing that really really like resets me and this sounds I'm sure cliche or cheesy, but it's when I go outside and there's a breeze. Feeling the breeze I close my eyes. I don't know what it is about a breeze, but it's like it's carrying away things.

Victoria Volk: If you can set that intention. Right? Yeah. Set that intention. Yeah.

Helen Gretchen Jones: When the breeze really resets me, I'd love a good breeze.

Victoria Volk: Come to North Dakota, we got plenty of that.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I love

Victoria Volk: it. Flat, and there's nothing but wind.

Helen Gretchen Jones: That's good.

Victoria Volk: So you have written a book which we have not talked about yet, healing whispers from spirit guides. And you didn't even mention it in your bio, which have found interesting. Oh, oh,

Helen Gretchen Jones: you know, that's how interesting.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. So when did this book come about? And What was the intuitive hit or inspired hit or the guidance that you received around that?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So it was June three years ago, and I woke up and then it was kissinger actually who we talked about already. Normally, when I hear my team in spirit, I hear them inside my head so very subjectively. This time, Kay came across very objectively. I felt like it was right in front of my face. And he said, you're going to write a book. And I have never had an interest in writing a book. I can't imagine I am a mom. You know, my I helped my husband with the family business like I seemed so incredibly normal that I didn't feel like I had anything interesting or valuable to say. And I was like, well, what would I even write about? And they said, write what you know? And it would take you about two and a half years to complete. I took they said two years to complete, it took two and a half. Ballpark. So I started to think about what is it that I know. I know a little but a lot of things, but I didn't feel like I was an expert in any specific area. And then it did occur to me that I had all these journals. I had all these journals that I've been journaling every single time I went to go visit a patient. I talked about what they were going through, what their families were going through, and then I would journal there, when I would be there, when they were dying, and the shared death experiences that I had. So I get to go part way in the spirit world with them. And I journaled these synchronicities and these teachings where my team and spirit would come in and say this is what he's experiencing, this is what the doctors are saying, and this is what's actually happening. And so I have these really great journals, and I just referred to those, picked out a few of my favorite patient stories, put him in the book, and then I preceded each patient's story with a what I learned through the grieving process, through the healing process, what I've learned working with Spirit. One one of the chapters is called signs and synchronicities. Right? So what to look force that you understand when knowing that you don't have to be bedside when someone dies, you can be in a whole another part of the world. Time and space does not matter in these moments. So all these teachings followed by a patient chapter and I end every single chapter with a a channel message from my team and spirit. Usually, it's kind of beautiful message that they that were already in these journals, actually, that I've been put together with these chapters. So so, yeah, it's it's It's just, I think, a book that talks about healing and grieving and the dying process and and how beautiful it can be.

Victoria Volk: And I'll put the link to that and the show notes, of course. Yeah. What is one of the stories that has touched you the most and has really just stuck with you.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I'm trying to how do I pick one? I guess I'm gonna talk about mister Rob Robinson. Of course, I've changed their names for their privacy with the HIPAA acts and stuff. But mister Robinson was an older man. He was put in a nursing home. He had failure to thrive. He was very, very skinny, and he was on oxygen. And did not wanna talk to me. I was like, he was he was very grouchy. But I insisted I showed up every time when I would sit with him.

Victoria Volk: as a volunteer.

Helen Gretchen Jones: I was a volunteer. Yes. His family actually asked for a volunteer through hospice, and he didn't want one. And so I was volunteering through hospice at this time. And he all he wanted to talk about was his very minimal but still important contribution scientifically in engineering wise to a specific car part. Okay? So, I mean, he was very much caught in because he was so worried about what am I leaving behind. What has my life amounted to. This is where he he didn't family. He has a couple of kids, but they were living their life with their kids. They weren't coming to visit very much. And he felt alone and he was trying to figure out what was the point of all this. And so we started just him and I. We were we would work talking about how great it was that he had his discovery But what do you think is most important now? We kind of really worked around that. And eventually and it took a couple of months actually. He said, you know, one thing that I really missed out on is I didn't travel until I was after age sixty five. And I was told that you do and as we all were told, right, probably growing up, that that's what you do. You work really hard. You get a good job.
And then at sixty five, you retire, and you travel, and you do all the things that you really wanna do, and you golf, or whatever it is. And that's what he said he did. And he said, but shortly after sixty five, I my health vaded. And I couldn't go do all the things. I always knew I was going to do because I wasn't capable of, you know, walking that. I couldn't hike anything anymore or my knees or, you know, whatever it was. He had all these ailments. And he's like, I really feel like I missed out on the good parts of life. And then he said, he would tell me about how his children were sort of problems, how they had all these problems. He doesn't know how they're gonna get out of their problems. There was all these different problems. Children were having that in his perception. And then I would say, why are those problems? And I would say, tell me, what's so wrong with that choice? What's so and we would negotiate sort of through those stories? And then when I would say something mister Robinson wouldn't like he would pretend to fall asleep. He would all of a sudden I mean, he would just check out, and that was it. That that's how he ended our our conversations all the time. That was, like, nope, done, honestly. Well, one time I came in and his daughter was there. And we Mr. Robinson and I've been really working through how it was important to share how you're feeling with your family when they're here and he's like not gonna happen, not not gonna do it. But I guess something got through because I walked in and his daughter was crying and he was asleep. I don't believe he was really asleep. Think that's how he ended the conversation with his daughter. He'd take to sleep. He basically she had recorded the whole thing. He said she said I had never had a conversation with my dad like this before. It was the most healing experience, and she's like, I can't She goes, everything's okay now. Basically, he told her that he loved her so much, that she's doing such a good job as a parent, and he recognizes now that he lived his life based on how society wanted him to be a dad, how society wanted him to provide, how society wanted him to he he realized that he didn't he made choices based on what he believed society wanted him to to live like, and he didn't want that for her. And that she was more free spirited. And, you know, I guess, she'd had children with multiple dads and she never went to college. These are things that really bothered him. And he's like, now I see you're a free spirit and you're finding love where love is. And you're a good mom. And so he said, all these amazing things that she really needed to hear. And he said, you know, he was atheist because he's a scientist. He said, you know, but I do believe there must be a God because he brought me you and I can't believe that he would bring me one of the most joyful people in my life and then take take her away from me and say I could never see her again. So I know I'm gonna see you again and so all of these beautiful things. So working with someone right where they are. Not telling them they're wrong, not just giving them suggestions and letting them process that information on their own was enough to give her closure, to give him closure, and for them to both leave feeling that there was hope that they were connected, that there was love, and that there was so much more than what their physical eyes could perceive.

Victoria Volk: And if that full body kills, it reminds me of my own story of going to see my uncle. I hadn't seen him. He was the only living well, he was very close to my dad. And when my dad died, he, you know, he said that he was gonna take care of us and watch over us. Well, apparently, he didn't. And that was a really strong resentment towards him from my mother and and, you know, we were told these stories growing up. And so my dad's family pretty much were not in my life after he passed, and my uncle wasn't either. And my mother I was in the writing phase of my book and her the editing phase, and my mother had called me and said that he had terminal brain cancer. And I decided that same day that I'm gonna go see him. It had been almost pretty close to thirty years to the day. And I went to go see him and we had about six months of reconnection and it transformed, I think, both of us for both of us, it was transforming because he hadn't seen me since my dad's funeral. I hadn't seen him. And I just felt like I had to do it for him. Like I had to go for him. Unbeknownst to me, it was actually very healing for me too. Yeah. You know. So it reminds me of that, you know, of of how really truly healing it can be to just set aside whatever stories Yes. We're told and whatever stories that we've been led to believe. That you can

Helen Gretchen Jones: or that we've created,

Victoria Volk: yeah, or that we've created, and that you can choose a different story at any moment.

Helen Gretchen Jones: And if you can just be brave enough to just take that step and do it, and vulnerable, brave and vulnerable. And it's the hardest part is leading up to it. Once you're there and you actually do it, things unfold so beautifully usually.

Victoria Volk: Yeah, I knocked on the door. I didn't know he'd bring cancer. Was he gonna remember me? Did he wanna see me? I had no idea.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Wow,

Victoria Volk: but I didn't care. It was like this mission that was given to me, you know. It was like I had to be there. And within ten minutes, my two cousins knocked on the door and came in. Who I hadn't seen either in just as much time.
One from Connecticut, like states across the country, you know. So it was really crazy how that all came to be and turned out, but Yeah. That reminded me of that.

Helen Gretchen Jones: How did your mom take that? Can I ask?

Victoria Volk: Not very well, actually. My siblings didn't either. And then my sister actually ended up going to see him herself Or, yeah, she went to see him herself and she did not have the same experience. And, you know, I was just like, well, you know, my intention was maybe different than yours You know? I don't know.

Helen Gretchen Jones: But then if you were open to change and connection.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. Even my book that wasn't received very well either by my mother, but Fortunately for me, like doing the grief work for myself, like going through grief recovery and doing a lot of personal work, I've changed that story. You know, I've been able to rewrite that story. And I feel like my mom's eighty two, she could go at any time. Right? I feel like because of the work that I've done, I feel like in just the personal knowing that I have about what the importance of end of life. Right? Like, having conversations on this podcast in particular too have have been healing for me just to understand that whatever I need to say I can there is a way to work through it without having that conversation, but there is also a lot of healing that can happen when you have that conversation with the other that can happen for them.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yes. Right?

Victoria Volk: And it's saying we're all connected. Yeah. It's discerning what's mine and what's theirs and what is meant to be shared Yes. That can be healing for both. Yeah. So how do you discern that? Like, do you share everything that comes through? Or is it Yeah. Probably not.

Helen Gretchen Jones: No. I want to. I'm excited about messages that come through, and I am always eager to have them validated. And I can be a little impatient. But as people can be, I suppose. But I don't share everything that comes through at all. I do try to write everything down. And the reason I don't share is because I think sometimes the information is more for me to guide, yeah, because you can tell someone something all you want, you can teach them and and preach to them all you want about a specific thing. But instead, if I were to take that information and suggest come around the edges a little bit, and then they have their own aha moment and they come to that on their own. Oh, that's what's healing. That's what sticks. So you can, you know, say whatever you want to someone, but all you have to do. So I think when the information comes in, I'll sort of come about it in a roundabout way so that they come up with the idea or they process that information without me having to say aha. But once they do, then it's validating for me. And I don't have to say, oh, it was validated for me because it isn't about me. Mhmm. But it does tell me that I'm on the right path when that information is validated and that I'm doing something for them or I'm helping them come to terms on their own. Because I know I as a healer, I'm sure you know, you can't heal someone, but you can start the process of having of having them heal themselves. You can be that catalyst for them, but you you can't heal someone who doesn't wanna be healed.

Victoria Volk: That's me. Absolutely. I learned that the hard way. You know, I'm curious if you were as a kid, were you like a questioner? Like, why why why?
Or were you a questioner type of kid?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So what was interesting is I would say, yes, I was very curious and I wanted to understand things. I'm also a first born, so I think that feeling in control, if psychology has anything to do with it, being in control and understanding what's happening around you is important for the first born because they feel like they need to, you know, take care of the younger ones. So I guess that was a questioner, but for the most part, if someone would tell me something and this is true to this day and they talk with their hands, so that has to be both, I don't know. And they're talking with their hands and they're it comes right here in front of their chest. Okay? If they're saying something that is heartfelt and true, it'll be like this kind of shimmer of light behind it, but only if it's in front of their chest. If they're saying something that is not quite true or they are exaggerating or they're trying to convince the people who they're talking to that it's truth, when it's not full truth, that kind of thing, or a flat out lie, I guess, could also be the case. But most people try to, you know, embellish the truth. You know, whenever that happens, there's like this little shadow that comes up. And I only see it in front of the chest, and I only see it come from the hands. So sometimes when people would say something even in childhood and I would see that, I wouldn't have to question. But in my mind, I'd be questioning why they felt the need to say that if it wasn't true. So I wouldn't ask them, why are you lying? Because I was watching to see how it would play out between the adults. But it was an interesting dynamic and under any truth and exciting it's coming from my heart truth.

Victoria Volk: That's fascinating. What do you feel like you need to share or want to share that you maybe haven't gotten to yet?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I think, Beth Dula, I'm going to maybe if I could talk a little bit about that. It's a relatively new position, and I think it has come up about with our changing healthcare system. Nurses have so much more responsibility in paperwork now that they have to adhere to, and they just can't spend time with patients like they used to. And so there is a need for people in hospitals to have people sitting with them, those who are terminal. And that's where a death doula kind of fits in. And when I've talked to people in the past, there are death doula who typically are very spiritual in some way. But I think that it's important to note that The most important thing I believe about being a death doula is to meet people where they are. I have helped people of all religion, of all different faiths, of all different cultures, And I've even had them have their faith contradicted near death. And when someone's dying, they take comfort in their faith, and it's not the time to really play up those contradictions. No, it's time to figure out how those contradictions, how can you make them okay? Because it's all about finding someone peace. It's all about peace being a death doula. At least that's my belief. So if you're a death doula or you're interested in working with people who are dying there are organizations such as hospices. Also, there's an organization called Noda, which I volunteer for. It stands for no one dies alone. It's a hospital based program throughout the country. And it's for people who have no family. Maybe they never had kids, maybe family lives out of the country, or out of the state, and can't afford to come in. Maybe they were total jerks and burned all their bridges, and nobody wants to be there. It doesn't matter. There are people everyday dying alone in hospitals. And they don't have anyone to sit with them. So a note of volunteer, it's a weekend training, that's all it is, and a flu shot. And you and they send out this email blast to all their volunteers, and you sign up for three hour shifts. And these are people who have already entered the actively dying phase, which means the last seventy two hours or less. Most of the time, they're already unconscious. You go in to sit with them. You are going in and you are doing what you believe is best for them in that moment unless they have a bio sheet and sometimes they do which tells you their faith. So if you're working with someone who's a devout Baptist, which happened to me, then I put on I played some hymns from my phone, you know, that I thought she would enjoy. And I put my hands on her and I did a little bit of energy work and things like that. I'm healing from my heart. I'm forming that connection. So there's a need for people to be with those who are dying, especially since nurses aren't able to do it like they used to be able to. So I would encourage anyone who feels like this might be something to absolutely pursue it. It's very rewarding.

Victoria Volk: You know, that brings up something for me because I have, you know, nursing homes in my area and we have a hospital, but I'm very rural. There's a high likelihood that my nearest hospital is not a participant of this and I mean, I'm I believe I'm probably the only train death to Dula in my entire county probably for ninety miles around me. Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna consider that.

Helen Gretchen Jones: It's a quick phone call or email to let people know that you're here and to help them understand how you're valuable and you are. You know? And I think that anyone who's working in those areas under stands that there are families who are already grieving before their loved one has transitioned, who are processing so much, am I doing the right thing? Am I putting my loved one in the nursing home? Am I, you know, are they getting their needs met?
There's all these questions people have if they're doing the right thing? Around their loved one. And if you're there to consult with them and to help them understand, in most cases, nursing homes are understaffed and underpaid. And so it's been my experience so far. That you do have to be still very, very present as a caregiver even when you have them in a nursing home. And it isn't about doing right or wrong because it really doesn't matter in that way. But understanding that just because you have them in a nursing home doesn't mean you're completely you can let go. You still need to check-in on them and make sure they're being monitored in the best way possible and being an advocate for them.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. My dad had passed away in a nursing home. Yeah. I wasn't there. Imagine, you know, it's like most people, like your passions, become come from a place of your wounding. Right? Just like you're what you're doing now, the experience of losing your father, like, was this catapult and what you're doing today? And so what do you what gives you hope for the future?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I don't know. I think I'm eternally hopeful all the time.

Victoria Volk: That's good. No. It's actually a very different answer than I've ever received. So thank you.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh, I I just I guess I choose the story where I see so much love and hope on this on this entire planet, and I am so aware that I get to create and co create my experiences. With my team and that's what I want. And so that's what I make choices around. So like when we hang up here, I will be doing a meditation sometime before nine o'clock tonight and I will be attempting to connect to my team because when it does have a feel connected, I feel inflow with the world around me and that is hopeful and that is loving and that is connected. But I have to do the work. If I go days without meditating and it does happen, I start to really get into my human. I start to really focus on all these physical little challenges that can I can blow up to be bigger than what they really are? But when I do the work and I say, today's, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna take five minutes, ten minutes, twenty minutes, and do my meditation. That's how it started. I mean, now my meditations are often over an hour, but because I want them to be.
I feel so good. But initially, it's five minutes. I'm like, wow. Five minutes was nothing. And I just feel so much more connected to this world and to myself.
So, yeah, that's I'm hopeful because I choose to be.

Victoria Volk: Like you said, we have to do the work.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yeah. And it's really not that hard of work to connect.

Victoria Volk: Was there anything else we would like to share?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yeah. I feel like we covered a lot of information. I just I just want people to know that they're not alone in their grief and that every single person goes through it and finding a way that is most helpful for you is beneficial not just to you but to the family and the people that you surround yourself with because they can feel your grief as well. And I encourage, like I mentioned earlier, if people are open to it, to consider even if it's out of curiosity, a medium. Because so much screen, they could go through one thirty minute, forty five minute or hour session with the medium and come out of it feeling I mean, you process it for days, but you feel like you're on CloudNine. And it's it's sort of like this beautiful high of being connected again to your loved one. And so I encourage if your grief is around the loss of a loved one and not the loss of, you know, a job or a, you know, a home or anything else like that if it really is a medium can help in that way.

Victoria Volk: And I would piggyback that to challenge your stories and beliefs that you have because they could be the very thing that's handicap handicapping your healing.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Absolutely. And it is one of the hardest things that we can ever do, which is self reflect. And people who don't self reflect always think they're self reflecting. But one way to know if you're genuinely self reflecting is if you come up with a defense. For your actions in some way. You know what? I behave this way because of this. If there's a defense to your thoughts, then you're not fully self reflecting. You're still trying to make right your choice. And so I would suggest that. So if you're truly being self reflective and trying to bring in that self awareness, you're not trying to defend in any way your actions or your choices.

Victoria Volk: That's juicy. I love that. That's good. What was the website that you would recommend that people go to to find a qualified vetted medium?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yes. Okay. So I know helping parents heal has one. Has a a list. And there are other lists out there. And I'm trying to remember the universities that do it. I feel like it might have been a university. I I see I don't wanna give the wrong ones, but I feel like if I had to and I could be wrong, I think that there was one in Arizona, one in North Texas, and one in Virginia that have qualified, had done research studies on these vetted mediums, and have put out a list of these people. So I could be wrong on those. I feel like maybe though that those are correct, but you can even Google certified mediums, things like that, and there's some really good ones out there. A lot, actually.

Victoria Volk: Okay. I will do some research or if you want us if you find know of a link that you have, send it to me and I'll add it to the show notes. And then also where can people find you if they wanna connect with you, read your book, where can they find that, all of that good stuff?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So my website is helen gretchen jones dot com. And on there, you can find information about the book and the services that I offer. My book is sold on barnes and nobles dot com and, of course, on Amazon. And it's both in it's in three ways. It's in paperback, Kendall, and an audiobook.
Red by yours truly.

Victoria Volk: Awesome. And where on social media are you? People listening.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Oh, I'm so bad with social media. Like, it is not my favorite thing. I am on Facebook under Helen Gretchen Jones, and I am also on Instagram under Helen Gretchen Jones. I did get banned from TikTok because I said death too many times and I you're supposed to say unalive. But that's really difficult.
I know. I know. I On a live

Victoria Volk: What is this world coming to? This is why we are so uncomfortable with death and dying. Right.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Exactly. Exactly.

Victoria Volk: Oh, you can't say death now or dead or dying? Like,

Helen Gretchen Jones: And you can't and I don't it just seems so silly to me because death comes for the old as well as the young, the sick, and the healthy. I mean, it's it comes for every single being and yet the longer that, you know, and whenever I think it started probably if I had to really do some research. I think it's probably around the civil wartime when we started having to involve our soldiers in order to get them home. You know? And once that started happening, there became this new culture for us where we when someone dies, we have someone else collect the body, someone else cleanses the bot cleanses the body, someone else puts the body, you know, goes through the embalming process, someone else lowers the body into the ground like it's so distant. You know? So we've we've created this for ourselves. And so now death is something to be feared. It's the unknown. It's distant from what we have to deal with. And we fear the unknown when that happens. And so we've created this culture of death as a taboo topic. And Certainly, I think with the book and with interviews, like the one I'm having with you now, one of the goals is to normalize talking about death and to also normalize talking about the spiritual experiences around death.

Victoria Volk: And how healing it can be when we open ourselves to a different possibility.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Don't shut yourself off. That's right. Allow yourself to be curious always and be open. You know, it's the best.

Victoria Volk: Just got full body chills. That was the main message here today, folks. Thank you so much for being here, Helen, for sharing all that you shared. It's I just I felt like this the whole time. I'm like, let's like in a trans listening too. You have a beautiful voice too by the way. Do you have a podcast?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I don't.

Victoria Volk: Oh, really?

Helen Gretchen Jones: I'm not in the flow of that yet. We'll just have to see how it unfolds.

Victoria Volk: Oh, maybe maybe in the future. Six months to a year, ballpark. Because as many times you said ballpark, and then I was thinking about the dot the world series game, I'm gonna ballpark in my head for probably

Helen Gretchen Jones: That's so funny. That's true.

Victoria Volk: There's a rabbit hole I'm supposed to go down apparently. So thank you so much for being here and and remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life much loved.