Ed Owens | A Veteran's Heart Cracked Open By Child Loss

This week, I had the privilege of hearing from Ed Owens, vice president of the Grief Recovery Institute, in a deeply moving episode of the Grieving Voices podcast.

As Vice President of the Grief Recovery Institute, Ed's narrative isn't just about loss; it’s about discovery—the kind that reshapes lives. From his military background to law enforcement tenure, he was schooled in emotional compartmentalization until life delivered its harshest lesson through his greatest loss: the death of his 3-year-old son, Ryan.

This wasn’t just a turning point for Ed; it was an unraveling—a catalyst that compelled him to seek healing beyond traditional avenues. The Grief Recovery Method didn't merely offer solace; it provided clarity and purpose, revealing insights into male grief often shrouded by societal expectations.

Ed challenges us to look beyond labels like "toxic masculinity," advocating for empathy over division. He sees our shared struggles as conduits for unity—emotional commonalities that can bridge ideological divides if only we dare to acknowledge them.

His message resonates with profound simplicity: Recognize your pain, own your choices, and rewrite your future—not as isolated chapters but as part of a collective human experience yearning for connection.

Join us in this conversation that goes beyond mere words into actions that echo across lifetimes. Let's create ripples together, capable of washing away walls built from unspoken sorrows.

RESOURCES:

• Grief Recovery Institute
• The Diary of a CEO | Gender Expert (episode about Boys/Men today)
• Victoria's GRM Microsite

CONNECT:

• Website
• Email: edowens[at]griefrecoverymethod[dot]com

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• National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
• Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

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Transcript

Victoria Volk: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is Ed Owens. And before I go on my own spiel. I'll just have you introduce yourself since I don't actually have an official bio for you. Okay. Thank you for being here.

Ed Owens: Oh, it's it's great to be here, Victoria. I'm super thrilled. I'm looking forward to doing this with you for a little while. And thank you for the invitation. So folks for all of you listening. Thanks for tuning in. Obviously, these podcasts can't happen without those of you that come back and listened and and tune in and We appreciate you. So my name is Ed Owens. I'm currently the vice president of the grief recovery institute. Which is kind of primetime prepayment method.
Now that's just my current stuff. My life has had before all this. I had absolutely nothing to do with emotions. Emotions were not something I was comfortable with and helping people with recent loss was, like, not even on my radar. Very briefly, I had a dual career going on for most of my life. I was in the US military and would eventually retire at almost twenty one years from the Air Force reserves. Talk about more about that if you like to later. And then on the civilian side, I was in law enforcement for twenty three. So York City County State and with the feds for twenty three years. So I had this dual career going on. I've got professional background education also except none of it prepared me in life for dealing with emotional pain, brief, drama, whatever Trevor you wanna use, it's all the same folks. And Yeah. But my path will eventually lead me here. So I'm a trainer with the Institute. I work my way up to a vice president of the Institute, and that's now what I get to do. I get a look at reading people. All of this planet. And I'm just thrilled to be here.

Victoria Volk: And I am so grateful for the Griffin Care Institute and for John James and this beautiful body of work that he's created because it changed my life. And I am certified as an advanced grief recovery method specialist at the Early Recovery Institute. So thank you for your contribution as Vice President, which must have been living under a rock because I did not know that. You were the vice president. So congratulations on that appointment. And obviously, you're amount of great service and much service. So what was the loss that brought you to grief recovery?

Ed Owens: Sure. That's a great place to start. Like I said, like, this is not something I ever thought I'd be doing. Whether it was military, you know, law enforcement, either one. Those were not jobs where we embrace emotions.
Right? Emotions can actually get in the way of getting the mission done or, you know, doing whatever we have to do in that terrible moment where you're called to help somebody. Right? That's not the time to be processing or dealing with emotions. So both of my careers taught me to compartmentalize and I just got really good at it. Both of my careers taught me to compartmentalizing and stuffing down all of that. And I could focus on what was in front of me, whether that was get the mission done or that was a call or whatever. And that's not to say that life wasn't happening that whole time. Right? Like all of us, we experience an enormous amount of loss events in our life, changes in familiar patterns of behavior in our lives that don't feel good. Like, we got a lot of conflicting feelings around it. Like everybody else, I'm not unique, but I put it all in a box. Right? Or I'm all in a box. And I just did what society taught us. Right? I used all the same tools that we all were taught. To try and deal with stuff, keep busy, you know, grieve alone, all that type of things. I did all of that stuff. Right? And there's a bunch of other stuff I'm not proud of either. I mean, like, I got into the bottle a lot, you know, especially in the military. And all of those losses kept accumulating. But to answer your question, the loss that brought me to the final, like, it all worked until it didn't work. I'm not saying it worked well, but it was all working and I was able to survive life right, until the death of my three year old son. And that loss his death broke open. I would say broke open Pandora's box all the stuff that I had been trying to carry around forever. And I was completely over with with the death of the man. And again, it's not about getting into the details or anything else, but nothing I'd ever done in my life worked. Everything came rushing forward at the same time.
You know, world spun out of control. It spilled out into every relationship in my life. It literally felt like I was drowning. Something's going on. And everybody told me, Victoria, oh, it's a life sentence of pain. You have to learn how to live your new normal Right? And you're never going to get over it and you never go you know, you're gonna have to learn how to live with this and survive for the rest of your life. And as somebody who, like, with my careers and everything else, like, we need, I have to just survive. Now that's not you you figure out a way to deal with this. So I went on a mission for five years to stumble around. Always looking and everyone kept telling me, I'm not gonna find anything, you know, or on one hand. You're just gonna have to deal with this pain. Or on the other hand, but if you tried this, if you tried this, if you tried this, if you thought about this, like and I'm like, hey, I haven't done that. I'll give it a shot. Nothing actually worked. I'd might feel better for a day, maybe a couple of days, but it didn't do anything with the emotional pain that I was carrying. And one day, somebody suggested Have you ever heard of degrees of carbonate? Like, nope. What's that? I mean, because, like, seriously, like, I I did all things. Doctors put me on pills, didn't like them. I felt worse. I I felt the first time, like, that must be what feels like be close to being suicidal. I'm like, I'm not taking those anymore. I did alcohol and I'm the pain, you name, and I did it.
And all the other stuff. Well, so lo and behold, my nope. So I had lunch. But somebody who's a grief scrubber med specialist named by Russell, years ago. I'm like, wow. This I'm like, what I heard. Went home, looked it up. Oh, there's certification training coming up in ten days. Now, I had no intention of being a specialist. I'm like, but I wanna go through this and they talked about, well, yeah, you can just do the personal work. So I signed myself and my partner up for it. I'm like, if I'm going, you're going, well, let's just for you. It's not for me. I don't need that. I'm like, well, if I'm going here, Helen, you introduced me to this, you know.
She's actually her mom who's suspicious. In all transparency. That's my partner. That's not. You interviewed her a couple weeks ago, I think. So we went together. And it was the last thing that I ever tried and the first and only thing that ever worked. And it still works to this day. And I've been able to use that in all of the other lessons that I've dealt with in my life. Go back and deal with, complete, and finish what's unfinished. Hence, never stop working.

Victoria Volk: What was your greatest aha in the method that just surprised you? When you first if you can think back to that time.

Ed Owens: Sure. I can't. I can't. I had a couple of two big ahas for me. Number one was the realization that my son's life and death top me more than I would have ever taught him as a dad. Wow. And so that was super powerful. That awareness. And the feeling. Right? Just the feeling around even his his life was a gift. And as painful as his death was, it was a gift in my life as well. And most people would be like, oh my god. How could someone say that? About the death of the child.
And I'm like, I can't say that because it's allowed me to become a better his example to me and what he taught me and what I've learned through this whole thing has allowed me to be a better dad to my opportunity. That's allowed me to be a better human being and to show up in the world differently. And I attribute that all to that experience coupled with the method guiding me through it. The other thing was after he died, I had a lot of misplaced feelings of responsibility. Right? I was beating myself up. Like, I didn't think I want the military at the top. I didn't keep my son safe. I failed to protect him. I'm not much of a man. I'm not much of a dead. I'm not being all the things, right, that I was beating myself up around. And going through the process, you know, without giving it away to all of our listeners who haven't been there yet. But part of it is we've taken honest, really raw, deep, honest, and mostly look at that relationship between our And when we're doing that, we if anything pops in our mind or on our heart more importantly, right? We we included. And I had this memory, and I didn't know what it was about, but I was able to discover what it was about. The memory was rocking my son. Every night, I had rock hit me in our rocking chair before I put him to bed and stuff. And he would look up at me and I'd see myself reflected in his eyes. And it was just it was one of my favorite memories when it looks like one of our favorite little routines that ended. And I always blamed myself. Right? I would really I mean, that was the worst of it. It was, like, all of the things that we should have been better or different, or if I could go back and change this x y z, this, you know, all that stuff, like, in the y's okay. But to realize, Ryan only looked at me with love and aberration and, you know, and he looked at me with unconditional. And I didn't believe after he died that I was worthy of love. I was worthy of committing. And so to realize that I am the man that I saw reflected in my son's thoughts. That I am, that person and dad that, you know, that I can accept love. Love for myself and love for others. That was huge.

Victoria Volk: What do you think is the state of I I listened to a podcast recently that was all about the state of men in boys today. Talking it went from suicidal rates. It went from talking about the importance of marriage. For men talked about, like, even divorce, for example, is huge for a man because if And if they're not in a relationship or they're not committed with somebody, and they're not a father, what's their place? Right? And so the whole podcast was talking about these different aspects of of, well, why is the suicide rate becoming so high among men? And how can we address these various topics? And talking about like the, you know, the empowerment of women and how so many women went from depending, right, on financially and economically on their a counterpart and to support them. And how that has shifted and changed and the impact and the ripples that has had on men in our society today. And so I'm just curious If you can speak as a man, just speak to what your thoughts are on on all of on I know you haven't listened to the pod. Maybe I should've sent it to you beforehand. I didn't I just thought of that now. I should've sent it to you beforehand. I'll send it to you after and I'll link it to you. Yeah. Because I think it's an excellent episode I'm not even sure why I listened to it, but it really had me thinking about all of this. Anyway, what are your thoughts on The state of men and boys today?

Ed Owens: Yeah, that's a complex issue. We could spend definitely more than an hour on that. Just alone, but high level thoughts. Right? Let's walk it backwards.
Right, from that place where there's so much suicide. And that's and that's an issue across the board, right, especially in western cultures. It's a massive issue. Right? And everything we've ever been doing to try and prevent suicide, it's a little wind here and there, but we are not stopping the trajectory. Like, every we need to do something different. Vote can't keep doubling and tripling down and putting more resources into approaches that have not changed where the trajectory of this issue. One of those things is people get to a certain point, generally get to your point. But I think we need to walk it from that. The point where everyone is aware to how did we get here? There's a quote from the Veterans Administration at least years years ago what veterans is. I don't choose suicide because I won't hurt anyone. I choose suicide because I don't know what to do with the pain. And that is a really, I think, an important way for us to frame how do we deal with this issue of suicide regardless of the reason. These people get to a point where they are so overwhelmed. They've carried so much stuff they've put into their little backpacks, their little emotional storage tanks. Everything they've tried doesn't work. And it's something, you know, people who are hurting lack the courage to wanna feel better. They don't. They're always trying. Even if it's not a smart choice, they're still trying to do something. But they're adding tools. So the first place to really deal with this right away fast is how can we get more people the right tools that will help them have another option that doesn't include taking their life. Because we it's gonna be a harder thing. They're both hard thing. Like, teaching people these tools and helping them to trust them is is a hard sell. And the bigger societal issue. Let's walk it back. Let's talk about it from a guy's perspective. At least from my perspective. And yet, this is I'm one person. Right? I'm one person. There are what? I don't know how many billions of guys on the planet. So, like, there's gonna be other people who agree with me. There'll be people who don't agree with me, but this just my take on it. Right? There's a lot of mixed messaging that's out there in the world. There's a lot of messaging that says to be male is to is toxic.
Right?

Victoria Volk: Podcasts even mentioned that, even that phrase alone toxic masculinity. Is Right. A terrible phrase.

Ed Owens: Right. It it is a terrible phrase. I'd say whoever created it it was evil of their intention to create that phrase. Again, we're putting a very negative label on a half of the population of the species and saying that if you are male, you have this and therefore you are bad. Well, that message will be internalized. Like, if we introduce the younger we introduce that concept to little people, Right? That becomes part of their belief system. Who's the greatest authority on the planet folks when we're five years old? Mom and dad And if mom or dad well, if you know, whoever it is or society or their teacher or whoever, says, oh my god. Little Johnny, you're a male. Nails are toxic. Nails are abusive. Nails are you know, mail energy is bad, bad, bad, bad, I mean, he's going to believe it because he'll take it in at a hundred percent true. And now you've been seeing they're creating a situation, whether it's Johnny or Susie who's being told this. Johnny's internalizing, oh, I'm that person. And Susie is internalizing and believing that Johnny's a bad person Right? We gotta knock off the labels folks. You know, it it there's a lot of other terms. But for this, but again, when we teach children very, very damaging concepts. At a super young age, they internalize it and believe it is a hundred percent true. I'm not surprised that the marriage rates down. I'm not surprised that all these things I mean, there's a lot of issues. Again, like, we can spend hours on this stuff one of my degrees is is behavioral science. So, again, like, we could spend a lot of time.

Victoria Volk: Part two,

Ed Owens: Sure. Sure. But we have created a dynamic where marriage is no longer or even, like, seriously committed relationships. Like, it's it's not the thing. It, like, that concept is dying. In granted, societies have all been changing, maybe that's what's necessary. I don't know. That's not for me to judge. But what we do have is a lot of single parent helps. Right? For one reason or another. And there's so much research that what is needed to help in a healthy way develop a young person's life, trajectories, balance, all of these types of things. This is by part two. Like, part one is we're teaching all these young people that half of the species is bad because they happen to be a male. Right? And then the other part of all this is we have and again, there's a lot of research on this. The lack of both energies the lack of a male and female energy. Right? In in the upbringing of a child, Right? And in particular, there's a lot of research around them. It's the lack of a male and in certain minority populations and those types of things. The lack of that is detrimental, physically, socially life choices that you know, on criminal crime, like, the lack of that presence in a young child's life is almost like we're sentencing down to have a bad life of the future. And again, like, I'm not I'm not playing a finger. I'm not saying anybody's bad at all. I'm gonna say, like, there's any of research on this. We need to have you know, let's say, like, it takes a whole village to reach out. Right? So, but in a whole village, it's like there's a lot of males and females that become positive, hopefully positive role models and examples of these sort of lives. And if we don't have that, and we only get one half of this of the situation, of the story, or the whatever. Right? It's not balanced. And depending on what that messaging is, you keep it toxic.

Victoria Volk: And I think as young boys in particular, would you say, and even girls, or however you identify yourself,

Ed Owens: Mhmm. If

Victoria Volk: you don't feel that connection in community within your own environment, you're gonna look for it somewhere. You're gonna look for acceptance somewhere. And and vlogging somewhere

Ed Owens: Correct.

Victoria Volk: Might not be the most healthy environment conducive of someone choosing healthier choices for themselves.

Ed Owens: Right. Absolutely. I hundred percent agree with all that. And all of this mixed messaging, all these different things. The bottom line is it puts boys and girls and and women in conflict with their own human nature.
And then we could like, hey. This is the top of where you explore over. But the bottom line is is when there's mixed messaging, there's mix. It's like, I'm not for anyone listening to this. Like, I am not an advocate that any one gender or the other is better than the other. I'm not an advocate that either one can or cannot do this or that. I'm not that I have one hundred percent that what is it you wanna do with your life? Alright. Let's do it. Because we are all capable of amazing things where we are empowered, encouraged, nurtured, and loved on that path.
Absolutely. But just like empowering a young person and loving them and encouraging them and helping them can achieve great results, teaching them that this is bad, and that is wrong. All of those type of things. Like in a toxic way. And again, I'm not meaning to use that term a lot, but what we do on this topic is toxic.
It's damaging. It's very destructive. And a lot of people are in conflict with their own human nature on it because of the mixed messaging. They don't know what's true. They they're trying to they try and force themselves to fit into a box.
The problem is that box is always changing. That that labels always change That dynamic is always changing. If you can't go, I don't know, a couple of months or you can't go a month without there being something being changed. You know, or this is the new term. Stop using term spoke. Stop using label. Right? And we have to have an honest conversation that presents both sides. I used to one thing I've learned over the years in my career examples. There's two sides to every story.
But the truth is always in the middle. No side when you talk to two people. No side is truth is a hundred percent. They have their their stake, their biases, their beliefs, and everything else. The truth is always in the middle. And we need to figure out where that is and that takes both sides working together to figure out what that is.

Victoria Volk: I hundred percent agree. But, you know, as we come to a conversation, we're always going to think that our what is what we believe is the truth. Right? We perceive it as truth based on, to your point, our personal life experience.

Ed Owens: Yep. And our belief systems.

Victoria Volk: And our belief systems.

Ed Owens: Yeah. We're responsible. Yeah. And again, like, we're doing some some deep waters here and you can edit this out if you like. But I think that this is also part of the bigger issue we're facing, you know, here in the United States and around a little. Like, we are so incredibly divided. And again, I'm not saying one opinion is different than another opinion. I'm not saying one's right or wrong, one's better than the other or less than the other. Right? I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is, we are so incredibly divided, right, across the spectrum. And for me, that's worrisome. I mean, as a student of history, I love history and everything else, when people are divided, then they start to you know, minimize and demonize and attack each other. Right? I don't care. I'm not picking size on anything, but when we when we do that and we see the we see the other people as less than worthy of us or that like, they're the bad people that allows us to then dehumanize the other side. Decrease in us versus them mentality. And folks, all you gotta do is look at history anytime it's in us versus them mentality. Similarly that results in silence, unrest, wars. Right?

Victoria Volk: It happens it happens on a micro scale in our in house Absolutely. Within family units. Is this on a bigger stage?

Ed Owens: It is. It is.

Victoria Volk: It's just a bigger stage.

Ed Owens: But that bigger stage is also making it harder for the individuals within their own families. Exactly. Right? Because there's so many I mean, there's been a lot of issues that have happened in the last five years. And then we don't need to get into the pandemic for detail.
We don't need to get into all the stuff that's going on. Right? Again, I'm I'm not wanting to get into different issues. I'm trying people to see the bigger picture. So, ma'am, Right?
And that bigger picture is, you know, we have, like, almost eight billion people on this planet and all eight billion of those people have their own individual unique belief systems, and people believe different things. And even if we kinda I agree with you that this is a good concept, I'm still gonna have different ways I why I think that's a good concept. Like, we can't even all agree on the same thing all the time. And these bigger issues are they've we don't live in a vacuum. In your household or mine, like, we don't live in a vacuum. It's not close the doors. And our little world is kumbaya and, you know, It's nothing but rainbows and unicorns. It is not the way this works. Right? Everything that we're impacted by all the stuff we see over here and that comes into our family, it comes into our relationships with our friends and our neighbors, our communities, And when we're looking at the other person and all this stuff is magnifying, you know, all of what's going on, Of course, it it does impact those individual relationships, the ability to form close intimate bonds and form a partnership, whatever that partnership is. Again, marriage oh, there's a million terms for all that stuff. Right? But it interferes with it. And it increases us versus them mentality, which creates more division. The more divided we are folks the more by the way, I'll say that's pretty lonely and isolated. But the more divided we become, the more conflict we will continue to experience. We've got to get to a point where we don't see other people, in our own household, in our own family, in own neighborhood, and community, we have to get to a point where we see people consuming things. And all of us as human beings experience sweet, joyful, and wonderful things in whats. And all of us assume names, experience, pain, loss, or whatever term you wanna call it, grief, trauma, I think, again, is it? It's pain. If it's emotionally painful, right, or emotionally joyful, we all can do this us. What make that's the one thing I fully believe about her that connects us as a human species. Is our capacity to feel emotions and to feel the outcome when things don't turn out the way we hope to predict. And if we could see each other as another human having human experiences who's also earning, we don't have to agree. We don't have to agree with their their all things would agree with their societal issues. We don't have to agree with their belief systems. But if we can recognize that people are humans within we're emotional beings. We have the capacity for this. And we can try and figure out how to connect at that level, and then I think there's hope. There's more of that color.

Victoria Volk: I think there's one question that people could be asked that would unlock so much for people. And it's when you're disagreeing with someone or you're finding yourself in conflict with someone asking them, what happened to

Ed Owens: you? Yeah.

Victoria Volk: I think it's simple question that when we go to the doctor and we have the aches and pains and you and I both know it's probably grief and trauma manifest staying in the body oftentimes and the doctor never asks, well, what happened to you in your life? No. And I think when we're finding ourselves, feeling activated about something emotionally and feeling ourselves, I hate the word triggered, but activated. Right? If someone were to ask you, what happened to you? What makes you believe that to be true? Well, that opens the door for compassion and understanding and listening and all those things that build and deep in connection. And I think that's one of the things you're alluding to is that we've lost the ability to connect Yes. Why have we lost the ability connect? And one thing I say oftentimes, I've said so many times on this podcast, is that we can only listen to others and be there for others to the capacity and to the depth that we've allowed ourselves to go.

Ed Owens: Maybe.

Victoria Volk: And I think what I love for the world to be grief recovery. I'm gonna make that a new word. The world would be a totally different place if it was all grief recovery. It's grief recovery, the world. And Mhmm. You know, I think that by sweeping our own doorstep is where we can start in our in homes, in our own homes, within our own communities. Is we're not projectile vomiting all of our stuff, I think, on other people.

Ed Owens: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Like, I can't control the events of leaders all over the planet making choices Right? I can't control that. You can't control that. People listening to this podcast cannot control that, and it but it impacts us.

Victoria Volk: Mhmm.

Ed Owens: Right? We feel this very intensely. And so you're a hundred percent correct. What we need to do is first individually make sure you call it, make sure your ports are swept. Right? I say we need to emotionally increase our capacity which means we need to emotionally get rid of things we're carrying with this that no longer serve as well. Right? If it hey. If the pain you're carrying for the last twenty years is serving me well, right. You can keep it. But if If it's not helping, where it's from spend my experience, it doesn't help over time. Then let's let's emotionally get rid of some of that stuff. If it's not serving your higher purpose, if it's not serving your life well, if it's not serving your relationships well, if it's not serving you anymore, by keeping it. And if we get rid of that, then I have an increased emotional capacity now to be able to better be there for the people in my life. And whether that's as a role model, as an example, I mean, I can't count how many times, but I'm sure you've seen this too. Right? Where people say, god, you know, my this person in my family or my friends, like, after going through these these tools you teach, people have noticed the change in me. Like, this is very common because once you deal with this stuff and you have an increased capacity to better show up more fully in life, to be a better version of you, other people see it and ripples in a positive way. Wife. And that is, to your point, when we start with us, it ripples out into others. First, our little close nuclear family and friends and then it goes bigger and bigger. And again, that increased capacity that we have to better be there for others that allows us to make a difference in our communities versus I'm stuck with all these picky things that don't feel good good. And the last thing I wanna do is get out into my community and do anything. I'm a little bit of work. I'm like, I'm home. I'm exhausted. Everything in life is a chore, a struggle. I just gotta get the day. And tomorrow is gonna be groundhog day. Or, again, we're gonna repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Right? But that is not a life folks. That is not how you are designed to live. And if you find yourself in a situation where your life is about getting through the work day, getting through the things you have to do every day, being exhausted all the time, getting up and doing it again. If that's your life, My heart aches free because we're not supposed to be there. We are by design here to love other people and be loved in return. We are here to trust other people and be trusted in return. To human nature, We are here to form connections with other human beings and to have those connections be a source of positive love can, you know, part of a life. But what you've been experienced at this point is keeping you from experiencing life that way. You're not living a life in line with your human nature. That's not what for you.

Victoria Volk: As kids, toddlers even were taught cause and effect. Right? Oh, touch the oven, you get a burn. Right? Don't do that again. You learn the first time not to do not to touch the stove.

Ed Owens: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And it's like, We have to understand that our words matter, our actions matter, that there's a cause and effect.

Ed Owens: Yep.

Victoria Volk: And we can either be have a positive influence on the effect or we can contribute to the negative energy

Ed Owens: Yeah. Of Perfect. Yeah. Yep. And we also need to sit there when I understand that whatever choices that I make, or you make, or anyone listening to this, you know, we're always a choice. I tell people all the time. You're always a choice. Every day, you're making thousands of choices. Mhmm. Right?
You're always a choice. And that's a good thing and a bad thing. It's a sweet thing and a sour thing. Right? You can make a good choice. It has a good alpha. You can make a choice that maybe is not necessarily the best choice. And you're getting less than an outcome. That's ideal. And sometimes you make choices that can hurt other people. And again, like, there's a whole loving myself, loving other conversation we could talk about too. But we have to also get to a point and I think there's a lot of this missing in our society too. People willing to take ownership and responsibility for the choices that they make that might might be hurtful to another person. Again, I'm not saying that everybody makes choices whether it's to have healthy boundaries in life, whether it's not a good relationship. I need to get out of it. I mean, that's gonna hurt. We all make choices that are the right choice to make But even when we make that right choice, we also have to folks be willing to take ownership and responsibility that I made that choice. Right? It's not old. They made me do this. Mhmm. Now I chose this because I love myself enough to make this choice and not a but but an and I recognize that this choice Right? I have some ownership responsibility for how this is painful. Okay? I mean, it's both things. That's just one of the other folks. Otherwise, again, it's us versus them. It's we're, you know, we're playing this one up one down game all the time. And if more people would be willing to take some ownership or responsibility, even when I make a choice that's painful and it's hurtful, where it's gonna cause knee pain, or other people pain, or my children pain, or something else, even when it's a loving and correct choice, like getting out of bed waste. Change that example. You mentioned divorce earlier and not this whole concept. Even when that's the right choice, we have to take ownership responsibility when we make that choice.

Victoria Volk: I know our time is winding down, but I really do want to give you the floor of the mic, so to speak, about something you and I both passionate about because I'm a veteran too, about the work that you are doing with veterans and the importance of grief recovery. Just in case anyone with some poll happens to listen to this.

Ed Owens: Right.

Victoria Volk: Well, you and I have both individually been working to do me on a local level, which is you know, door slamming in my face, but the importance of trying to bring grief recovery to the veteran community. And I would just love you to share what you've been working to do, what grief recovery institute has been working to do, and and where things are standing in there.

Ed Owens: So take a step back. So John was a big non veteran. So the first thing I wanted to hear is this whole thing was created by an old Vietnam combat vet. Right? So if you're military and everything else and you're thinking like, oh, I don't know about this thing. You know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. This was created by John with that was his background. He was also created from a place of he was hurting. He was emotional overwhelmed. He was about to take he contemplates taking his own life. And he wanted to find a different choice. Right? And I think that's important about this military conversation. Is that this whole thing was created by a guy who was hurting, who wanted to have a different choice. Than what so many of his brothers and sisters would do. Alright. So that's where we start with this. And the entire history, the grief recovery method, the grief recovery institute, we've been working with veterans and trying to work with veterans and trying to get this in front of them. The last eight years, take ten years, you know, we've had a lot of great inroads. Like, we've always done some good stuff with the military. Don't get any wrong. But we've trained a few hundred, you know, chaplains and social workers and people within the military branches. Air Force and Army primarily, few navy, national guard, active duty, hand reserves, So we've been really fortunate to make some really positive inroads within the Department of Defense. We also made a lot of positive inroads and continue to train I would say, almost monthly people from the Veterans Administration across the country. And in the course, there's different Veterans organizations we partner with and then train specialist with those organizations. And that's all great. And we've made a lot of positive inroads. And so getting these tools and skills into the hands of veterans so that they have them to to use an easy aspect to rely on whether it's a military service or whether it's a personal relationships, which, by the way, the personal relationships is a high divorce rate and high alcoholism and all those other things. That is the behavioral outcomes and choices made because they're hurt. When I hear people are going through all of these things, like you mentioned earlier, my mind and my understanding of things is what has happened. Right? I know that that going on is not happening in the vacuum. So that's where we've really tried to do a lot of this. And there's a lot of specialists like yourself. And others, right, who are either veterans or they're not veterans, but they love working with veterans because their partners are veteran, or their dad and my dad's or We gotta take our wins where we can get them. One here, one there, that type of thing. But I will tell you from the Institute's perspective, we have trained. And in the last, I would say, eight years, a lot of specialists that are out there doing the work. Inside the military community and on a military basis. And we've had folks who in the military, who've taken a down range for those of you that don't know what that term is, that means forward to pull out. Right? To hotspots. You know, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Middle East, still. There's one maybe specialist that I know who was an advanced specialist like yourself, the word virtually. Doing things with the ships of fleet. Alright. So and doing what to what? So again, like, we're slowly getting this more acceptable within the culture, military culture. And like anything else, it takes a long time to change the culture to any organization. Organizational behavioral changes challenging. Howard Bauchner:

Victoria Volk: And it's not just veterans too. I mean, grief recoveries, kinda trick is starting to trickle into prisons and Yeah. First responders.

Ed Owens: Correct.

Victoria Volk: Wow.

Ed Owens: Correct. You know, we've got a write me a specialist working in all of those clinics, and jets, and hospitals, and senior centers. Stepary religious or spiritual type of group you can imagine. I mean, it's going It's very heartwarming to know that we have expanded into so many different parts of our society that historically we're just not there. And we still have a lot of work to do. I mean, I still have people who tell me all the time when I talk to them, like, oh, well, what's the roof cover method? I mean, again, it's, you know, it's We've been around for over forty five years, and that doesn't mean that people know who we exist.

Victoria Volk: Exactly. Yep.

Ed Owens: And, you know, doing podcast like this helps to help raise that awareness. If you're listening to the spokes and you've not had a chance, please you know, go to Victoria's website, read up on some of this stuff. Go with every method, you know, dot com. And you can read it on stuff. The more that we become aware, that there's other information, other tools, other skills. There's things that we can do to educate ourselves and then make a choice. And we're always a choice. Right? And I hope you choose to at least start learning more. And if it feels right, I always tell people all the time, folks you got to trust your intuition.
If your intuition says this feels right, I wanna keep looking. I wanna keep I wanna know more. And if your intuition says, now this is for me, then great. I wish you well, and thanks for at least being open for a moment to take a look at something. The more people can become aware of it, the more people that at least know there is something else, the more we can help. And by the way, we don't just help adults. We help children. Getting back to this whole conversation, like, we were talking about earlier, like, folks we've got to do a better job. As adults, as positive male, and female both in the in the children's lives whether that's your family, your nuclear family, whether that's your extended family, like we have to have be the positive role models. We have tools for you too so that you can teach them to children versus teaching them things which may or may not be the most helpful to them. Let's create the confusing. Let's create the issues. Let's create a lifetime. I'll try and struggle with it. Figure out what they're they're confident with their human nature. So we have those tools too. So, like, we do a lot of different stuff. And I would encourage you to at least pause and be curious. I think I wanna learn a little bit more about this. You know, that's a great place to start. And then from there, folks you can talk to people like Victoria, you know, get on our calendar. Say, hey, tell me no, then let us have an opportunity to have a heartfelt conversation.

Victoria Volk: And I would add, what do you have to lose? Because like you said earlier, it's what you've been doing probably isn't working. Probably has been working for a long time. And that was me too, over thirty years. Right?
Like, I got this. I can DIY my my emotional trauma.

Ed Owens: Yeah. Right. I'm getting your again, I say that to people all time. Like, hey, look, if you like how your life feels, and you like how everything is and this is all good and it's working for you? Okay. Cool. You can keep it? But the problem is most of the time when I'm talking to people, they aren't happy. They don't feel like they're living as fully as they could be. They're tired of feelings alone and isolated or sad or those days come around the calendar and it's just ruins the week.
I mean

Victoria Volk: It's like you said, surviving. It's you can either survive or you can Thrive. Right?

Ed Owens: Right. It's choice. Remember? See, there's a theme here. It's choice.
People can choose. You can choose to live your life in a survival mode, or you can choose to not let the experiences that we've had in our lives define us. Of course, we learn things from. Of course, we can learn. We can grow, we can become different people because of the experiences and the losses and the events in our lives would shape us. But folks, they are chapters in your life. They are not your life. And it doesn't mean that whatever you've been through in your life is now the story of your life. You are a choice. You can choose how to write your own storing.
You cannot choose and control the events that take place in your life that impact you, you're human. But you can choose how you show up after these things happen in reaction to what happened. It's a choice to deal with the pain of whatever's going on in your life or deal by the way, embrace and lean into the joy and happiness, it works both way. It's a choice. Some people choose not to embrace and lean into joy and happiness and connection because they choose to isolate. That's a choice. That's a heart brain. Choice. Right? When I see that happening? But again, there's a choice. We oops. How do you wanna show up? What do you wanna do?

Victoria Volk: The phrase that got me, I think, that resonated with me the most, was have the courage to take a chance to make a change.

Ed Owens: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And it does take courage.

Ed Owens: It does. And people who are hurting their lack of courage, they just don't know which choices they got. And again, we can only make the choices, but we can only, you know, choose what to do based on what I know. And I can only use the tools of information to make choices whether they're good choices or not until I learn better skills and tools so I can make a better choice. Again, this whole thing boils down to that. If you like the way the tools are working great, if you don't like the way they're working, Let's show you some other things that you didn't know before, or maybe you'd heard, like, a piece of this here, a piece of that there, but we didn't put them together. In a way that's like, god. Why didn't I think of that? You know?

Victoria Volk: That's what I think about grief recovery is, why didn't I think of that?

Ed Owens: Exactly. Right? So, yeah, we do the best we can. And this isn't a judgment folks. All of you have been doing the best you can to navigate life with what you were taught up to this point. And that is not a judgment, right, at all. I just wanna give all of you just a big hug. And and because you're listening to this, you're curious about the potential tools and options. And things that you can make different choices with. And I applaud you for that. It's because when you learn other information skills, tools, You can make different choices. You can have a different outcome. And or not, it's choice. You can choose to be right and hold on to painful things that have happened in your life, or you could choose to be happy to join in type one. I hope you pick happiness. I hope you pick joy. I hope you pick connection, love. That's what I would pick.

Victoria Volk: Beautiful way to wrap this up. I want to have I would love to have I desire to have a part two, possibly. I think after you listen to that episode, I'll share it in the show notes like I said. Link your Great Recovery Institute also in the show notes and my information where people can find me as well. But where can people find me if they're just listening to this where they can connect with you?

Ed Owens: So if you wanna connect with me, the easiest way is if you wanna put my email address in show notes. It's n o ones, one word, at grief recovery method dot com. You can also go to brief for perry method dot com and go to the about us page. You'll see about me. I also have a micro website on the on there. If you wanna just click my micro website, that allows you folks to send me a direct email message a calendar link to jump on my calendar if you wanna have a conversation. Love to talk to you about whatever news you wanna talk about, and you can read more about me that way.

Victoria Volk: And if you're listening to this and you work with first responders or you're in charge of first responder department or police department or EMS or veterans organization or hospice or anything like that and you want to bring grief recovery into your facility and organization and community. Mhmm. Ed's your guy. Please reach out to him.

Ed Owens: I would love I would love to have a conversation with him if the audience who would like that. That's conversation.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. The more people we get certified in this, the farther this can spread and I think that's the goal here. So thank you so much for being my guest.

Ed Owens: It's been an honor. I really appreciate the invitation. I look forward to part two. And for all of you that were listening. Thanks for tuning in.
Thanks for watching tuning in. See you next.

Victoria Volk: And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.