Scott Forrester | Coping with Widowhood: A Story of 50+ Years of Love, Loss, and Learning

In the quiet aftermath of a personal storm, Scott Forrester found solace and strength in the Feldenkrais method. His journey is not just about physical recovery; it's a poignant narrative of resilience amid life’s harshest trials – loss, grief, and reinvention.

Forrester’s story began with an accident that challenged conventional healing methods. Physical therapy couldn't mend what was broken within him. Then he realized that our struggles often lie deeper than muscle or bone—nestle in the intricate dance between mind and body.

Through Feldenkrais, Forrester teaches us to listen—to really listen—to our bodies whispers before they become screams. This method isn’t confined to those seeking physical relief; it extends its embrace to anyone yearning for emotional liberation from grief's heavy chains.

His tale weaves through his own tapestry of loss—of loved ones who have passed on but whose presence still guide him like unseen stars guiding sailors home. He speaks candidly about embracing life as a way to honor those we’ve lost rather than being anchored by their absence.

But this isn't just a story about coping with sorrow—it's also one of profound love. Over 50 years married, Forrester learned that marriage thrives on more than promises—it blossoms through unspoken understandings, shared growth, and enduring friendship.

Scott Forrester stands as a testament to living fully—not despite losses—but because of them, transforming pain into purposeful strides forward...into awareness...into hope.

RESOURCES:
Book | The Aware Athlete
The Faldenkrais Method

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Transcript

Victoria Volk: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, whatever time it is you're listening. Welcome to grieving voices. Today, my guest is Scott Forrester. He is an author, a Felden Price practitioner. Yep. Podcaster, when licensed physical therapist assistant, and I can't believe if I pronounced that correctly. Is that right?

Scott Forrester: That's correct. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Is there anything let's start there. What is a filled in Christ practitioner?

Scott Forrester: Alright. So a filled in Christ practitioner. That's a form whenever you have a method that gets named after someone, you have to put up with the name. So that is a method of somatic ed education. Pulmonic education, soma refers to the living body. So it's a form of learning with or through the body. Okay? It's so I'm actually teaching a class a couple classes a week. It's taught in two different modes. Awareness removal and is their group class name. And functional integration is the name for the one on one work. It's the same work, but just done either verbally or verbally and with a hand.

Victoria Volk: Okay. Can you just explain a little bit, like, what it looks like?

Scott Forrester: What it looks like?

Victoria Volk: Yeah. Okay.

Scott Forrester: So in the classes, these particular classes I've been doing since January and almost none of the movement lessons have been the same. There is really only one lesson that's how you move your attention around and within yourself. But so the last the last lesson, we do them on Wednesdays and Fridays. So on Wednesday, we did a lesson. And the the class is really good. The people I had Friday, I knew know how to take care of themselves. So we did a lesson that that involved one person at the end of the lesson, being able to put surprise themselves, being able to put their foot on their head. And we did that with no straining, no stretching. And then so we did that on the on the right side. Then on the left side, we did hardly any movements, and that was even better because we we used a lot of visualization after you know how to do it on one side, then you also know how to visualize it. And then Some of the lessons have involved no movement at all. If you are watching them, we've done lessons where you just cover the eyes. And improve your vision because the eyes are doing things while they're covered. And so there's a tremendous variety. A lot of the lessons focus on most of most of the ones we've been doing are awareness for movement, focusing on awareness. But they have a heavy emphasis on function also. So you end up with a lot of movement surprises.

Victoria Volk: So people unless you're watching this, you can't see my face. And so I am, like, A little bit and, you know, kinda turning my head to the side because it's fascinating to me. I find it fascinating and interesting. And I can tell you, like, because I'm an energy worker. I Uh-huh. Bio field tuning with Jeff or raki master and and all that. And I can tell you just living where I live heavily, like, old German country. Right? Like, I'm, like, the unicorn around here. Like so at least I feel like it. Although Yeah. I know that there's probably people that are interested in the Wu's stuff like that. And are kind of in the closet of it too. Right? Like, they're interested in these things that you can't really explain

Scott Forrester: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: But you have to just experience. And that's what I'm gathering from you is that this is just something that you have to experience and that before you can really wrap your head around it. Is that

Scott Forrester: it is? It is well, it is. Philadelphia wrote a number of books and so you can't because he was a scientist, you can, if you understand the book, books, you can absorb his contextual framework. So you could kind of understand it that way. His book, body, and material behavior, he wrote in the forties. And so it has archaic language in it. And if you read the introduction to that and pay attention to that, then you might be able to understand what he's talking about. Baby.

Victoria Volk: How did you land into this practice?

Scott Forrester: Okay. So this This has made a huge difference in my life. I fell off a roof once. And I only fell seven feet, but it was far enough to break it ankle. Your body weight is seven feet, if you're not dull lines, man, quite quite right, is still some force. And I eventually had that surgically repaired that was successful. But in the meantime, I had developed a movement pattern with my knee that wouldn't allow me to run very well any any more. That was about twenty five years ago. So I went to physical therapy and they made it worse. Yeah. I knew they made it worse, so I didn't go back. And very sincere, nice people. Then I went to another physical therapist who was an ultra runner. He's about my age, actually. And he had won his age group in the Lenville one hundred more than once. And he was familiar withothelin Christ, but he wasn't a practitioner, didn't understand everything about it, but he did apply some some of it. And I had been very interested in the in the method. I I tried to research his online at that course, the in twenty five years, what you can do online is increase dramatically. But So I became very interested in it, and I sensed that, for instance, the first person who made me worse, physical therapy, And I I am a physical therapist assistant. So and I've worked in a quite a bit, so I understand it. And and if you wanna get very generalized, every physical therapist is different. But if you wanna really generalize it, strengthen stretch. So if you have a problem, you just have to strengthen the muscles around the area. Well, I already had been relatively at the same time. This is not astounding, but I I was able to deadlift four hundred pounds. So obviously, I was strong enough to run. But the problem was all your movement patterns are not in the muscles. Talk about muscle memory. We understand that, but the memory is not in muscles. It's in the nervous system. And in the central nervous system, in the brain, that's where you have your your your movement patterns. That's where they reside. And you may have even had the experience of forgetting how to do something But as soon as you pick up your hands to do it, you can remember how to do it. Anyway, So that was the first thing. But the real problem was just change your movement pattern a little bit. Now you could do it. I could go into detail about that, but The way we do things, this is profound because it doesn't just apply to to your body, but the way we do things, the quality of the way we do them. The details of how we do of how we do what we do our makeup profile differs. So this is something that you would have to experience. However, it does have a huge conceptual framework, and you could understand that. The the difficulty with doing it just from the books is you don't understand the person at first. So you don't quite understand I could say a sentence. And if you don't understand the context of what I'd say, words are always always limited. So you always not so you get very little out of it and unless you understand what the person is saying. And he writes in sentences that are paragraph long. So Yes. You could do it either way, but but you do essentially have to experience it. And even in the training, I was myself and others were getting about halfway through it, and we were saying, what if what is this? Eventually, you understand. But it is, you have to experience it. So it became something that with somatic education is making big inroads into therapy too. Felding Christ, didn't want to. His method is so large as to become unwieldy in in some ways. So you've heard the somatic experiencing maybe Peter Levine and there are so many so many techniques and methods that use that. But and so if ethics and ethics can be applied exactly to that. To therapy. The beauty of what he did is that it's it has great therapeutic yeah, advantages. But some of the some of the the results that you obtain are partly because you don't focus on the problems, that you don't focus on therapy. If you have a problem, if you focus on the problem, you have a problem for the rest of your life.

Victoria Volk: Welcome to politics. Right?

Scott Forrester: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Focus on all the problems all the time. And Yeah. Everybody's always talking about the problems, but there's Where are we talking about?

Scott Forrester: It applies to everything. So I Yeah. Made a profound difference in in my life and even how I respond to. Everything. In my class, I I've had the greatest compliment lately because people are beginning to say, you know, my whole this is influencing and changing my whole life because I approached life in a different way. You could either I don't know. I often say you could either do what you always do and do what I what I tell you to. Or you could do what's right for you and and learn how to take care of yourself and how to move from that place.

Victoria Volk: So who who who is this for? Who is a good candidate for?

Scott Forrester: Okay. So if you if you want to advertise it, as you know, you need to well, you probably know the difficulty of advertising what you're doing in your location. You suggested that Yeah. But if if so if you want to advertise it, you kind of have to appeal to someone. Some particular group because the problem with it is that it can help anybody that you're familiar with basketball?

Victoria Volk: Mhmm.

Scott Forrester: So everybody knows Michael Jordan. But just before him was doctor Jay. Julius Irving.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Scott Forrester: Fellow Christ worked with him. Oh, he he worked with ballet dancers. He worked with children with cerebral palsy because you're working with the nervous system. And So it it really applies to it would apply So a lot of people that think they're doing fine and are moving through life. Maybe they're in in the maybe they're fairly young, thirties and forties, they probably wouldn't be interested because they think they're doing fine. They could improve them tremendously. But if you had cerebral palsy, or if you have neurological difficulties or if you were an artist or an athlete and you have some reason that you really want to improve your skill level, the skill level that resides in your nervous system. Then it's for you. So the problem is it could help anybody.

Victoria Volk: Well, and what I know about emotions and grief and trauma is that these emotions like that these heavy emotions that we our bodies remember. Right? Our bodies hold on to

Scott Forrester: That's exactly

Victoria Volk: He's in the nervous system.

Scott Forrester: Right. Right. So you know if you're doing energy work. Mhmm. There's nothing. Fell in Christ to him. There was not a mind body connection. They're exactly the same thing.

Victoria Volk: Oh.

Scott Forrester: So if if you have a that's a huge difference between saying a healthy mind and a healthy body. So if what you were saying, everything that happens to us is hell in the body. Well, that's because it's Also, all held in the emotions and in the mind. It is held it tells everywhere in the person. Mhmm. So Franklin Christ did feel that working with the with movement was the fastest way to access the entire person. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: There's a question that's kinda noodling at me. And so I'm gonna ask, is this, like, similar to like, Thai chis, like chigong, like those types of practices?

Scott Forrester: Yes and no.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Scott Forrester: It was very similar in in that it, you know, it it emphasizes the mind mindfulness the same way.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Scott Forrester: It's very dissimilar in that in Chaiti, you learn a formula and you can improve and improve and improve and improve and prove in that form. Falcon Christ had hundreds. There's even literally thousands of blessings. Over a thousand. So you come into the class. If you understand that you're doing the same lesson every time, but it has a different flavor, would you like to improve your eyesight? Would you like to improve your balance, whatever? It was it's heavily it's unique and that it's heavily oriented towards function, but also in that every time you come in, you'll be doing something non habitual.

Victoria Volk: I have a question. Have you seen people with conditions? Maybe even rare that have seen improvements in their condition using this method.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. Yes, you have. I've worked with people who had late stage cerebral palsy and and so on. So yes.

Victoria Volk: Or near blindedness.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. So I think it's David Webber that develops filled in Christ knew everything in his side. He knew all the all the scientists, and he was a black belt at Juno, so he understood martial arts, and he even understood them to the extent that he wrote a book on the Physics of Juno. So okay. So I lost my check. What was the question again?

Victoria Volk: Vision. Near blind.

Scott Forrester: Vision. Yeah. So that means he knew a number of things about vision. I think it was stated whether that's developed a lot of exercises there. And they're I can't remember the source, but there's a case study on a person who was legally blind. And he decided to do these eye exercises. And he was prescribed, you know, you should you should do them an hour, maybe even two hours a day. He did him thirteen hours a day. And he went from legally blind to perfectly acceptable vision.

Victoria Volk: I just got goosebumps.

Scott Forrester: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: I am just fascinated with this falling Christ's guy. So

Scott Forrester: He had completely destroyed knees. And he was born in nineteen o four, lived till nineteen eighty four. So back when he did that as a twenty year old, they didn't have the knee surgery we do now. But he figured out how to rehabilitate the function of the knees enough that he could practice you. Which Mhmm. With with no meniscus and no legacies. Pretty astoundingly.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. You would go to a physician, maybe, like, that's impossible. Don't do that. You'll just hurt yourself further, you know?

Scott Forrester: Yeah. He was he was cognitively and physically in the body, very aware of what he couldn't couldn't and couldn't do. You know what? He could move fine if he moved in certain ways, which we can, and not fine if he moved in other ways. He had to he had to move within the stability of what he could do, but he understood that and felt that.

Victoria Volk: It's almost like connecting with the energy within the body to understand it and manipulate it where it can be manipulated, but then almost surrender to it where it can't be.

Scott Forrester: Yes.

Victoria Volk: That's a good question.

Scott Forrester: That's very understandable. That's very profound. If I I'll probably butcher the quote, but Find your greatest weakness and surrender to it. Mhmm. He said most people spend all their life either covering up their weaknesses or trying to improve them. Sent those that surrendered to their weaknesses are rare. And he said they actually lead every generation. So obviously, you can understand why he would say that. He has no knees. No functional knees. But in surrendering to that, he found what he could do. He found his whole person. So that applies really to everything.

Victoria Volk: Well, I'm gonna have to look into this guy. He sounds like a true trailblazer in Renegade for his time And

Scott Forrester: He was a pioneer in neuroplasticity when that term wasn't even used. And there was a brain researcher, Aileen Bakirida, I think, came to some of his classes. Her husband, Paul, Aker Reed Award, won a Nobel Prize in the I believe he won a Nobel Prize in Nobel Prize in Nobel Plastic Research. I think he was the man who took a blind man and hooked sensors to his tongue and hooked that up to a camera. And the man could see. Yeah. He's done that with us. He he proves a lot of things, sensory substitution that way. You've done it done it with a person with a very poor vestibular system. And and he put a helmet on the head so that he could I don't think he may have used the camera there too. I'm not sure. But then then the in fact, in that case, the person eventually didn't need the device. Because the brain had been trained to be able to stand in. So

Victoria Volk: Well, listen.

Scott Forrester: So anyway, when when his wife came to the classes, she said, you are able to do more here practically. And our research is allowing us to do in the lab.

Victoria Volk: Well, this is fascinating. And I do want to get to your grief story

Scott Forrester: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: But so I'm sorry I kind of derailed the conversation in my curiosity. But I think it really is a good context into how it changed your life because you've got a lot of grief experiences and a lot of loss

Scott Forrester: Oh, in one year. Yeah.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. You were already practicing this, I imagine, for years. Yes.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. Yeah. It made made a big difference to my wife and I. I was finishing PTA school, and I ran by a laundromat where my wife was doing the clothes. And we I had thought about doing this, but it was very expensive In terms of you have to not work for seven weeks a year, you have to find a place to live in another city for that long. Then you have to come up with a tuition and and it takes four years, so it's quite a commitment. And but there was no training offered near us. So I kinda shut down.

Victoria Volk: You're talking about the folding price?

Scott Forrester: Yes. And so I I stopped in to see my wife, and she pulls out an ad paper. In the line of math there. And there wasn't there was a train that's gonna start up within a reasonable distance. And she said, you have to do this. And as difficult as it was, her that was her attitude clear through the training. So it did make a difference with this.

Victoria Volk: So tell us about your what followed?

Scott Forrester: So I I Our training started in twenty ten, finished in twenty fourteen, so it was much later in In twenty twenty two, in August, we celebrated our fiftieth anniversary. And we came back. So in September, it was, you know, it's almost twenty twenty three. And two weeks or so after we got back. Yeah. I she had I worked in physical therapy and she had a very tight calf. And I said, you need to go to the doctor right now. So she did and she had a blood clot, but and and it was removed. A lot forty five centimeters. And in the meantime, at at the same time that they, you know, did a scan for the blood clot, they did scan at the aggregate and the physician came back and said, you have stage forecast for her. And So early in twenty twenty three, she began chemotherapy.

Victoria Volk: And

Scott Forrester: she after about three treatments, she had a clean scan. So we were We were happy about that, but it was in the lymph system that it came roaring back. And after three treatments has sensitive as she was to that. She they couldn't give her anymore because her white blood cell count was way too low. And eventually, they she tried radiation and another form of chemo that was probably not as effective. But, anyway, so my dog whom was not only a family member, I almost got a telepathic relationship with him. The only dog I'd ever had, I got over at sixty. You know what I mean? And he was very important to both my wife and myself. I won't go into downward, but he died in August. And we're both here for his last last day. Well, I didn't say that my mother died January. She was ninety nine, so it was expected. She was very highly functional until the last couple months of life. So my mother died in January, my dog. My wife and I both sat there for his last day, and he was kind of a pioneer for us because he lived his he lived his life every day. And he had wait. He'd had a couple surgeries and they couldn't do any more for him. And their mask came back on his mouth and other places. And I was building my son's house down in Chris' Valley, and it was hot out there. And so I left him with my wife for a few days. And I came back. And she said, yeah. You've gotta take him with you. He's more of us here. So as high as it was, is uncomfortable for for him as it was. He wanted to be out there with me. And, anyway, in in August, he could no longer he he reached the day where his fever came back and and he couldn't get up. He could barely walk, and he just wanted to sit and look. And he couldn't get in the car anymore. And he never liked me to pick him up unless he was really weak. And but he was afraid to get in the car because he tried it a couple of times and couldn't couldn't make the jump anymore. So I picked him up. He was finishing and he scratched me. Yeah. But once he was in the car, it was fine. And then when he got out of the when we reached the vet, he likes vet because they've always helped him. So he hopped down the car and walked in on his own. And then they took him into the bathroom and put it IV in his in his, like, and he was fine with that. He he done it before and then and he and then Dave would do something, you know, do a surgery. He'd come back and be fine. So he was fine with that. He walked in on his own, walked to the waiting room where my wife and I sat with him. And laid down because that's all I could do. Energy was gone. And then they gave the the shot that you know, slug him down, and they gave him another shot that stopped his heart, but it is extremely peaceful. And so that was a role model for my wife and I. She actually she actually lived a year after the diagnosis. She she made it through September of twenty twenty three. And and passed in in the very first hours of October first. My wife had gone through quite a bit of trauma. And my mom died when she was nine, dad's bad enough, but her dad was an alcoholic. And so he married another alcoholic. And so her stepmother hated her and and hated her father because she was a terrific alcoholic and didn't know how to love anybody. Yeah. So she grew up with first the loss of her mother and then people saying, you know, you you gotta be strong for your father. Right? Yeah. That's backwards. That's so and through your early teenage years and and later teenage years, you hope. In a family that's not your family. So she grew up highly sensitive doing due to needing to know every night. Her father was a stable alcoholic. He held a job. But you need to know what Moody's coming home in every every night. Mhmm. And so she actually suffered from depression quite a bit. And then that last year, she was never depressed. We were both really accepting of death, which is a good place to be because in our culture, we just kinda put it off into a corner. I'll deal with that in fifteen years. Mhmm. It really could enhance life. To understand it. Anyway, so she would she never had time for that and was never depressed. And she lived every single day Even when she was getting weaker, she got up and did something that was life every day. And that was true for her last day. My son visited and he brought pictures from the grandkids, and she held a nice video call with them. She was fully into that call. And, no, ma'am. I didn't know. She didn't know. That was her last day. She was magnificent. And she's my hero. She did not want to spend one minute in a facility, and she didn't And and the timing was the whole thing was amazing because I spent a little bit of extra money to have some help. To finish to finish John's house. And I couldn't be in two places at once, but when I got it finished, that's when she really needed vehicle. So it's a huge it's it's a bigger thing than you think. But, you know, in the first week, when you lose somebody that closely, you're holding their hands when they take their last breath, which was beautiful. But when you do that, a presence tends to be really strong, especially for the first week or two. And I got up one morning, he's walking down the hall, and I It's a knowing. I related to hearing your voice. She said, I will always be with you, Scott. Not too much later. I was sitting down at the breakfast table and I said, how was it with you? What are you arguing? She said, Sky is so beautiful. So wonderful. Wonderful. Actually, the word, whether anybody thinks that's a voice or not, some people understand some it's a great truth because it says that life is sacred. The right way to grieve is to remember someone as your hero and embrace life. You know, you could think and it's reasonable to think that the right way to agree with us to be unhappy. But counter intuitively, it's not the the loss is bigger than you think. Because if you're orientated correctly and you live day by day, you think you can deal with it. But you find there's more layers to it because she wanted to be a lie a wife that was actually her goal. It's not everybody's goal. Wife, a mother, and a grandmother. And she did that her entire life. I matter when she was maybe eighteen. We spent a lot of time together when she was nineteen. She was married when we were twenty. So her entire lifer, she did that. And that's all I did or don't either. You live day by day or do it fine. And then you find out the the loss in the hole is bigger and you thought and you find yourself, you know, searching for something to fill that. So I recently hadn't aware of this. That you have to relate to the past in a certain way. If you relate to the past as the beautiful blessings that you had, the fun times you had, or as the things that weren't right but what you learned from them. You're on you're on a good path. As soon as you say, as soon as you begin to grasp and say, I wish I had that back. It brings you down, like, falling off a building. So never go there. The first time I had that realization, it was kinda like oh, that's a good realization. I understand that. I see that. The second time I was, like, I'm never going there again. Then I understand. It was beautiful, but I I still am in touch with her. But after seven months, you have to be very quiet and just I could still ask for questions and feel and answer, but So I felt in Christ this thing about that was the beginning of really developing some awareness within yourself. You can use a method to improve your function, or as you were talking about, you can move that use that method to actually notice exactly how you are functioning. There are places that you can go to as a method that improve your your sense of yourself, your standing, your connection with the ground, just how you feel it in in an overall way. You talk about posture. There's there's some ideas about posture and the method. But there's a certain way of standing in which you're totally comfortable. And I couldn't quite go there. I thought that we had experienced a whole year of both joy and grief together, and I realized that there was even another level that we could have experience. So you can tell that in your body, you're not quite ready to go to that place. After you've experienced it and know what it is. And then later you are. Yeah. The whole idea of self and self awareness has been expanding. You know, throughout these entire last ten years.

Victoria Volk: What's your wife's name?

Scott Forrester: Namely. But her name was always Leanne and was her Italy.

Victoria Volk: And your dog?

Scott Forrester: Stealth.

Victoria Volk: What time was he hold? Was he?

Scott Forrester: He was a lab shepherd mix, and he didn't quite make thirteen years. He if I had a dog now, I would have known their limits, but he's a very strong, strong dog. So I felt like he could do anything I could do. So when he was about five, I took him on a hike through the desert from Walker Pass to Kennedy Meadows. Mhmm. I was lost one day too. So we were probably out there by sixty miles. And, yeah, he was totally exhausted when we got done. He couldn't even walk very far. I mean, we'd really get through it out there. And my wife picked him up and, you know, picked us up. Actually, Actually, she I was a kennady medalist store, and she was up to the campground. I didn't know that. And I I couldn't get in touch with her cell phones for her working. And eventually, I had somebody I could have walked up there. But still is good. So I'm gonna leave him with the campground. I I was gonna leave him with the campground manager, but it said he took us up there. That's how tired stealth was as strong and tough as he was carrying his backpack and and always leading the way. And I've taken him on hikes through the wind river range in Wyoming. And Well, one one day we did from Snora Pass to Echo Pass or whatever it was in the Sierra. And we did thirty one miles in one day. The last part of it, it was actually getting dark. So you're walking up the steepest part of it to ten thousand five hundred feet. The rock is part of it. And you can't see the trail. So every time you go to a rocky spot, you can't find the trail. Because now you have to negotiate out of this Rocky area. Which way did it go? My GPS did that for us. But it took a minute to find the trail each time we were crossing streams at night twenty hours and he was right up right here. I had no estimate for a vehicle. Yeah. Yeah. So Yeah. We did some big adventures together. And then finally, he got to the place where I wouldn't do that with him anymore. It it didn't have quite the stamina for it. It was too dangerous for him.

Victoria Volk: So growing up, had you had any loss experiences? And and how did how did what did you learn about grief growing up?

Scott Forrester: Okay. So basically, no. I mean, we're We're it was pretty isolated from everything. But I both of my grandmothers did die. We weren't there for it. You know, further passing or anything. We they both had funerals. And then that was way back in my childhood. The first one, my my dad's mother. The second one was was actually actually after I got married, and she was way up in her nineties. And she passed the way she wanted to. So those are significant. But then my father died when I was I think I was young, but I was forty three. So it's not a childhood loss. But that one was in such great contrast to to my wife later thirty years later because that one I couldn't accept it.
And I couldn't even say that my father had died. I couldn't use that word. He was so strong. And you know, to a kid he seemed invulnerable and then he had Parkinson's disease in every a piece at a time what he could do. Went away. I couldn't even say Parkinson's for years. And, you know, five years later, I could I had trouble accepting it. And for thirty years, he's always been there. With me. That was a completely different experience.

Victoria Volk: I noticed you didn't even mention that in what as one of your losses.

Scott Forrester: No. I I was pretty much focusing on on what happened within the space of the year as pretty dramatic. And I think my wife knew she knew how much she meant to me. Even more than I knew how much I meant to her. She knew what what it would be like. And I think she guided me through a lot of it. But, yeah, there's a thirty year difference between those two and in the intensity of you losing three, actually four. In one year because I I'm by myself, so I adopted another dog. And my son said, that he would help with it. But in reality, it turned out he couldn't. And so I found that I couldn't really take care of but I kept him long enough. He was potty trained, and I kept him long enough that we found a really good home for it.

Victoria Volk: Why do you think you couldn't take care of him?

Scott Forrester: Because I did what I usually what I wanted to do was get a dog who is full of energy. And so he was like a border collie, and he was only about seven months old. I could take care of him. But if I did, that if I were retired and didn't have anything to do, I could take care of because it took the entire day. I had to take him for a life.
If I took him to run for two hours, he'd go quite okay kind of for one day. But I couldn't do that every day. So I had to take him for, like, five walks a day. And and I had to keep an e eagle eye on him to make sure that the project training was holding, and I had to do all kinds of things like that. So I could have taken care of, but I wouldn't have any relationship with people outside the home. You know, drive to bed there. So it was either the dog and you and you stay in the house with a dog for the rest of your life or, you know, you can you can work with other people.

Victoria Volk: Is there a part of you that feels it was maybe just too soon?

Scott Forrester: To seem to get the dog? No. I just I just couldn't. I don't I don't have a fancy yard. And I don't have anybody having your wife at home that can watch them while you go to work and while you do something.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. That's yeah.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. I couldn't I just didn't have the ability to do it.

Victoria Volk: So earlier you mentioned you just kind of made a statement about trying to fill the void. I that those weren't your words, but to that effect, trying to fill the space and time and

Scott Forrester: Not not so much the time. I've been pretty busy with with the space.

Victoria Volk: I'm actually trying to keep busy. I suppose is maybe the good a good way to say it. Like, you've been trying to keep busy. Is

Scott Forrester: that No. No. I'm just no. It's easy for me to keep busy. I I have things that I wanna write a book. I've read written a couple of books. I wanna write a book. About this. I think there's some useful things in it. And at least there's some at least your story needs to be told.

Victoria Volk: What were some of the things though that you found that you have found yourself doing since your wife passed away that Oh. Are out of character lead.

Scott Forrester: Well, she loved to cook, and I had no interest in it. So I I don't know how to cook. So now you have to take that up, and she gave me some hits before she passed, and I've been feeding myself quite well. But so now you have to do that. And you find out that it took a lot more time to do some of the things that you thought. So now I'm it's only me here, so it's not a big deal, but I'm cleaning the house. I'm teaching my classes. I am I want to write that book. Trying to find time for that. Eventually switching over the cell phone, you wouldn't believe how much trouble that was. I keep sending you the bills for the person who's not there anymore in front of the plan and switching insurance and say doing all the paperwork and she paid the bills, so I had to figure out what she was doing there. And then my son needs help. I have two sons. One's an engineer in Arizona. The other one is not this ability. And he needs some help. Although, I'm proud of him. He's needing a little bit less as things go. But so I had to figure out his finances and that was and we have to make trips down to Social Security, and then that does get you know, you have too bad. I was totally busy with that stuff for a long time. So during the during these classes, I put quite a bit of work into you're doing two a week and I've I've actually kept them so I don't do the same class every week every twice a week. I could. But so I put quite a bit. Excuse me. I didn't. I can't think. I've been doing so many things. I can't I can't really

Victoria Volk: do you feel like now, like, the dust is settled a little bit? You've gotten a lot of that administrative stuff that, obviously, when some when your spouse passes, there's so much paperwork and you'd kinda hit on that a little bit. Do you feel like now is when you you finally maybe have time to, like, sit with how you're feeling and sit with your grief and kind of maybe just now being able to do that? Yeah.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. It's getting a little bit more like that. So something that's, excuse me, have been crying. I mean, crying a little bit.

Victoria Volk: Okay.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. I wanna get back to the right. See, I still my time will be filled. I I if I have enough time, I would like to get back into painting. But something that takes a good chunk out of my day every day is that, you know, I have to get outside I have to do.
I have a friend that finished a hundred mile race not too long ago, and it was one with a big cut off. And so I get together with her and we'll do eight, ten, twelve miles. And, you know, you know, we'll go up we We did Smith rock the loop around that the other day for about eight miles, and it has something in it. They called Missy Ridge, which is just a big steep climb. And then we can jog back down a lot. But every day, so I want to spend if I'm really busy, I only get outside for half an hour. But I I like to spend an hour or two every day and, you know, to start the day doing something that's movement or exercise. And I do a lot of movement preparing for the lessons. But see there's that is so important to me that I make time for it. So there's an if you if you go outside and do heart rate training for two hours, it takes more than that. You had to make sure you had to do whatever things are necessary to prepare for it. Then you're a little bit more tired, sometimes even requiring a nap. So that's a foundation to my day. Because if I do live to ninety or ninety five or my like my mother about a hundred, I wanna be fully functional at that age. So

Victoria Volk: Don't we all?

Scott Forrester: I don't have any trouble being being busy. But, yes, the other day, I was able to sit down in the sun, and there's been a I mean, seven days a week, I'm busy. I'll go out and see my son Christmas valley here. But I have had a couple times where it's been very wonderful to sit outside and just reflect. In terms of filling the void, it's a it's a little embarrassing. But I found myself. So I I didn't want to just put myself in a closet, turn the light out. So I found myself reaching out in a lot of different ways and making trying to make new connections, which I have. And that's good. I found myself making new friends on Facebook and trying to find people that live in the area. And it was not obvious to me. Believe it or not that I was searching for somebody to fill that gap. And because it's not what I was doing, but it was. It's not what I was doing, but it was in there. It's all I've ever known. So you're I talked about a habit that's in the body and an entire person. Yeah. I I went to the store the other day. This has been a little while ago. All of a sudden, that became kind of clear that happened in that in that looking error. And I actually kinda cried because isn't that obvious that you would do that? Right? It wasn't completely obvious. It became obvious. So I've I I think I've kind of indicated that all my friends are twenty years younger. Not all my friends, but but my close friends, Laura is twenty years younger, but a friend that may visit that I used to run with in Cheyenne. He's twenty years younger. My friend Carlos, and his and his partner, Monica, are twenty years younger. Somebody I did go to visit some people at at the senior center the other day on invitation. And I like the people great. But I couldn't go there again.

Victoria Volk: Well, I think what I mean, just based on how physically active you are, Yeah. And your background knowledge and stuff, is it accurate to say that you are a bit of a unicorn in the population of your peers?

Scott Forrester: I guess so. I mean

Victoria Volk: And that I

Scott Forrester: don't think there are

Victoria Volk: other people are is not where you are.

Scott Forrester: They don't do that some of these things that I do.

Victoria Volk: Exactly. And

Scott Forrester: so I love to talk to.

Victoria Volk: It's how do we improve our lives, how do we better ourselves, it's by surrounding ourselves with people who are doing what we who are where we want to be. Right? Yeah.

Scott Forrester: Right.

Victoria Volk: Where we're at? Does was your wife very active with you as well?

Scott Forrester: No. She was always physically weaker than I was on it. She on her honeymoon, we hike eight miles in and eight miles back to the old mill the crystal mill in Colorado. And on the way out, I care I used to carry her backpack. She was only twenty, but she supported me.

Victoria Volk: And that's what I was gonna say too is, but she never took that she allowed you to be you fully you?

Scott Forrester: She did. She supported me so much. In fact, there was a time when I I get lost all the time. She was a navigator. But I do have some sense about where I am when I'm when I'm outside.
Mhmm. And but I had no experience to do this, and I was backing very light. And by the time I just lost a couple days.

Victoria Volk: A couple days?

Scott Forrester: Anyway, I I just lost a lot out there. And Let's see. So it was between fifteen and twenty years ago that I decided I was going to be in the wind river range and go from Green River lakes campground to Big Sandy, which has totally changed now. And they were keeping it kind of wilderness, so they weren't a lot of sides out there. So you can imagine that was, you know, maybe seventy eight miles or something.
It turned out to be more than that for me. I didn't know if I didn't receive it again because what happened was An hour in, I dropped my GPS at the stream, and it was supposed to be waterproof, but it dropped it to a deep part of the stream. And It took me a lot of fishing out there. It worked. It was full of water. It worked well enough for me to find the trail one time. And then it never worked yet. So I'm out there with no GPS. I did have good maps in a compass. And I thought maybe I should go back. And then I thought, well, I might never have the opportunity to do this again, so I'll go a little farther.

Victoria Volk: Man, you got gumption.

Scott Forrester: So I I know she would be at the campground for a better hour or so, I mean, probably that day. So I could have gone back, but I didn't. And five days later, I walked out and I'd lost so much weight that she didn't recognize me. I made a statement.

Victoria Volk: You ran you ran out of food, I take it.

Scott Forrester: I still had two or three hundred calories left, but I had

Victoria Volk: Futch hell from her when you finally met up with her.

Scott Forrester: Well, when I yeah. When I approached enough to talk, you know, but because I was walking towards her, I'm wearing the same clothes, but she didn't recognize me. And I'm I'm but anyway, that night before the seasons were changing in the melons. I had a one pound sleeping bag. And It was getting too cold. I tried to get out of the wind because I didn't have a tent. I brought my rain poncho that I strung up over myself, which actually protected me from the rain, but not the wind. And last night, I tried to hike the ice boulders there. My bag wasn't doing it. I was I was shivering through the night. My my shoes were icy and frosty. In the next morning when I put them on. So I I wasn't I was thinking, you know, if it gets more be more than shivery, I'm gonna have to get up and start doing jumping checks or something. Anyway, we made it through the night. But that night, I was I was sitting up and I felt her beside me. And I said, she's here. No. She's not here. I kept going back and forth before I she's not here, but she is. And when I the next day, It took me four hours to find the trail. It went through a rocky area, and Anyway, so when I got out, she told me that she had taken, and this is not something she did all the time. She had taken my wallet and held it held it closer to her to her heart and projected herself out. Out beside me. She knew she knew that it was getting it was getting cold where she was. So she knew. So she wasn't very active, but she she supported me in so many ways.

Victoria Volk: So you could have died. Were you not were you not fearful? Were you not? Like, what was going through your mind?

Scott Forrester: Their last day, I had let myself get dehydrated or and and the lack of food, which you know, you can go coin ways without food. I I knew that, but I didn't know it in my body yet. In five days, it's enough to get hungry if you're not used to what you're doing, not prepared. Right?

Victoria Volk: Well, when you start hallucinating?

Scott Forrester: I wasn't to that point, but I was to the point where I didn't have any extra energy to think to to think about worrying. Mhmm. So I was I was just pretty pretty steady to just kinda do what you go back, come back. I make it or I, you know, I find it or I don't. You do get to the place where you're at where you say, oh, somebody help me.
But, yeah, I found the trail. And once I did, I was up to three or four miles an hour again.

Victoria Volk: What I'm hearing in this story is it is a a metaphor for grief. Right?

Scott Forrester: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: We're you can feel so lost. Like, can you see the parallels of getting lost?

Scott Forrester: Oh, yeah.

Victoria Volk: Not knowing where the trail is, not like losing your path, losing your self identity?

Scott Forrester: I did lose my identity. I've been a husband all my wife, life. And she was my everything, and she said to me before she passed. She said she said, yeah. We both wanted her to go first because I wanted to take care of her. That's always been the case. She was weaker physically. And Yeah. She said you you were in my rock. So you you lose that identity. It's gone. She no longer needs my help. You're right. And then it's every day at a one day at a time, and so you learn and you learn new things. It is a metaphor for them. I could.

Victoria Volk: I see a book along those lines.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. I I really would like to say some things that I think will help other people because I'd like to tell her story. So you know that all my friends are twenty years younger. And I'm not I wasn't looking for anybody. But I found somebody who I knew I could I knew it was worth with, but I'm I'm not gonna tell you the whole story.
It's just too funny. But I so this person was actually twenty nine years younger.

Victoria Volk: Okay. So

Scott Forrester: I went way out of him and and asked her to marry me knowing that. Very likely he was gonna say no. So she did say no. So anyway, I wasn't looking for it then, and I'm really not today either. But that that all is there. It's a good thing because it's what I've really needed. I recently talked about the difference between being alone and being lonely. Mhmm. If you're if you've never done it before and you're forced to be alone, you have to learn some things you've never learned before. And it's exactly what you need.
So that's my story. For the pilot.

Victoria Volk: Thank you for sharing.

Scott Forrester: Thank you. Thank you for being a great host.

Victoria Volk: I would ask you what your grief has taught you, but I feel like you've fully answered that question. Do you feel like you've answered that question?

Scott Forrester: I have. But in looking over her wonderful marriage, and it was. I saw I saw in retrospect, I saw areas where I really wish I'd been more for and then I got carried away with that to the point where, you know, boy. You could look back and and and say, I was so selfish in in some marriage. When you're you're twenty years old and you get married, you don't know We just had dumb kid. So you asked everything you learned in life. Everything we learned, we learned together. And so you you can get you can kinda get out of focus on that. Yes. I do wish I'd done some things even more for, but you can't say, I wish I'd known fifty years ago what I know now because it's impossible.
It's so it's always a very beautiful thing and then I I for a while, I got so carried away with. Which I I do acknowledge and I do want to bring into life and other people's lives. What I learned there how much how much freedom is encouragement that you want to give the woman your a r I two? So that's there. And I'm working with that. But for a while, it overshadowed what was something that was really beautiful even though it was very imperfect because it could not have been anything else. So, yeah, that's another lesson.

Victoria Volk: So what his love taught you?

Scott Forrester: What his love taught me? Yeah. I understand the commitment. I understand what it takes it takes a whole lifetime to build that kind of a relationship. The amount of comfort that we had with each other, the we really were one person.
And she has she has guided me through all of this. And love love has taught me, you know, look look at the love, don't and look at whatever lessons you can learn, but But don't forget that there was something there that was beyond anything that was done. It's you can't encapsulate it all in one mistake or one love is something that goes beyond. It's more than the sum of the parts. The whole of the whole relationship if it works in the marriage is more than the sum of parts. It works better than it should. It can work better than it should.

Victoria Volk: And what do you think is the key to it working? For fifty years?

Scott Forrester: So I don't wanna be too tried, but we we were careful to be committed to that idea at the start. I've been kind of astounded if I look back, I see. I guess, you know, there were places where it could not have worked. And then I've been kind of astounded when I'm getting a better view of what marriage is for people overall. And and there are a lot of divorces. Yeah. So I've been kind of astounded by that. It's so logical that it wouldn't work. So I I really have gained no understanding of that. From a perspective of what? You know? Because okay. So a couple of other things that I know even when in my wife's journal that she said I could read shows up is that commitment's not enough. If you don't know how to make the relationship work, commitment is not enough because you're committed to something that doesn't work. So then the thing of communication is really essential. And you should develop the skill of nonviolent communication. Of being able to communicate without blaming. But even but we always communicated but we didn't even know that skill sometimes. The person that can hurt you most in the world is your spouse. And if you have not shed a lot of your ego, everybody wants to be hurt and everybody wants to be loved. And if you have a very strong egoistic way of doing things, which we all do, then somebody gets hurt, and then they say, but you did this, that as a matter of self defense. There's various ways that can happen. I just listened yeah. You've been very patient. I just just listened to an interview with I think his name is John Cotton. And he was saying that after all the studies he's done, you could predict whether a couple would stay together in as little as fifteen minutes with eighty five or ninety percent accuracy. Because we talked about the fellow Christ method that it's the quality of what you do dictates what you learn, not the quantity. So you can do a lot of quantity and you end up with neck pain or or hurt because you're doing the same thing the same way and you and you increase the intensity, but you're using the same habit. So because of the quality of couples interaction, they can tell just a short period of interaction would typify the quality of what you're doing. So do you do you still enroll? You don't even listen and they know you're not listening. So they upped the volume. I mean, do you do that or or do you even when you hurt one another, are you really seeking for something really knowing It's not even compromise. There's some truth somewhere. And are you really pursuing this? Which we did as a friendship? Or are you trying to be right? And those those little things and you can eventually to be learn to communicate much better. But then So that brings you to the other thing and you can't up your what's the quality of your communication in the first place? Are you trying to be right or and that comes you know, you have to learn that because that comes through. But but the friend aspect of it, you know, is that the most important thing? And like I say, in beyond compromise, are you looking for something together? I we weren't great at it. Just I mean, and and and listening with a high degree of awareness. If you bring complete awareness, complete observation to that in a non bias, non passionate way, then you are you are observing your own self in my con. You are observing your wife's body language. You are observing her words. You are observing hell around. She holds your head, and and you are seeing the meaning behind it. And if you don't, you ask that's a high level of communication. And we didn't always have that, but we we did have this basic belief in. What we were doing. So you need that communication and then you need that continued growth. That self growth. If you don't have that, that's a well, that's a hard place too. But but if you have that friendship aspect, if that's really what you're what you're after, you you can keep going. I mean, you you'll probably make it. What what was very interesting? And John Gottman's speech I was listening to was he said, most married problems don't they don't ever get accepted or changed. Resolved, but they get accepted. So the friendship, the aesthetics really what determines it all. If you want to go farther, you can. And and you show that it might be dangerous not to.

Victoria Volk: Well, that's the foundation. Right?

Scott Forrester: Yeah. But that's the foundation. Mhmm. You can learn better communication skills and you can learn learn not to to put that ego first and you can learn to do that. And then something that you should have learned that is it's becoming more a possibility in a in a country you can learn. We throw the word partner around. It's a good work. But it loses some of its meaning if you throw it around too much. Like so to add to that, you can say, you collaborate with your wife or your colleagues or and then you can go back to use the word partner with a different meaning. As equals.

Victoria Volk: I had a conversation yesterday with a minister. Mhmm. He said the most important decision you will ever make in your life is the person you choose to spend your life with.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. Liam was eternally kind. That was so important. So Yeah. You're you're right.
That is and so you should be a little nervous about it. And take your time. I actually I asked, actually, after before he got married, we were a kid. I said, what makes you think you can stay better?

Victoria Volk: What'd she say?

Scott Forrester: She told me, you know, she'd never experienced. Divorce in her family. Her mother was always there. Even her father was there. Even though her father invited to a horrible marriage, he never left his wife. And then I thought that was a pretty good answer.

Victoria Volk: What is it that you would like to scream to the world? You were on a long hike and you were out in the mountains and you're at the top of the mountain, what would you scream?

Scott Forrester: Well, in a book, I would like to scream, scream, her her story. It's amazing. Overall, I would I would just I would just like people to know how how great marriage could be even though it's it's a process to see through. It's not great every day. It can become great every day, but that's a that's a long story. I would like them to see how wonderful it could be. I would like to I would like them to see two things. One, the beauty of how how much my wife or a woman can give, and then I would like them to see the wonder of what the husband how he can lay himself aside. That I'm I'm not talking about wear yourself doing a wear yourself out doing everything for for your old wife, but you give your entire heart to to her elevation. Those two aspects. I mean, what she gave is astounding. And it's hard to put it into words. But I would like I would like so I would like overall people to know, you know, what what marriage could be. How you could get there. What a wife really? What a gift a wife could be? And And I think there needs to be more a lot more knowledge of of how a husband needs to function in terms of putting his eagle down and and any leadership comes from my my entire heart is in elevating my partner. I yeah. So the the beauty of the whole thing, I can I cannot overappreciate the gift that she gave? Her entire life.

Victoria Volk: That's beautiful. Is there anything else that you would like to share that you didn't get to?

Scott Forrester: No. I just appreciate the opportunity to talk about even. I I guess Yeah. The fact that I can still I can still ask her questions and I feel a response just in the smile or It is it's never it's not really a loss. I only lost the physical things.
Anyway, I I thank you very much for the chance to share all that even some of the most embarrassing things.

Victoria Volk: It was my pleasure to have this conversation with you, and thank you for describing this new Well, it's not new, but this the method.

Scott Forrester: Oh, the the film price method if you

Victoria Volk: Yeah.

Scott Forrester: If you didn't any help understanding that get in touch with me.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. So thank you for bringing that to my awareness, to my audience who Yeah. I mean, there's so many neurological issues out there. And as we talked about grief and emotions and how they get held in the body and I see that it's something that could be very beneficial for everyone just as you shared and It's obviously been helpful for you in navigating your grief and bringing a sense of awareness to your body and being within the body and Okay. Has allowed you to live an exceptional physical life.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. Without that, I wouldn't be doing some of the things I'm doing right now.

Victoria Volk: And isn't that the whole goal of I think all of us, you know, I'm forty five. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be fifty. And you're thinking, oh my gosh, I wish I could be fifty. Maybe, you know. But that's the goal. Right? To get to as we get older, it's not to view it as a death sentence or slow progression of debilitation and weakness and all of these things. And so I try and take care of myself so that truthfully. I can probably take care of my husband because I feel like I'm the stronger of us too, you know.

Scott Forrester: Really? Yeah. Yeah. I can still lift my wife. It's That's incredible.
Absolutely. That's we wanna live our best life and we we don't wanna accept unnecessary rehabilitation.

Victoria Volk: And that's the key unnecessary. Right?

Scott Forrester: And so when you get out of the Pacific, unnecessary, exactly. And if we have the necessary, then we want to incorporate that into our life the best we to be the best that we are. And if you get on the Pacific Crest Trail, you find, you know, you hike all day. Entire day, you take your breath, breaks, so you make sure you eat and drink enough. But that's all you're doing. The entire day from when you get up in the morning to when you when you need to allow enough time to set up your tent. But there's old people out there. And they're in shape you wouldn't believe. There's, you know, there's a lot of twenty, thirty, forty, fifty year olds out there, but there's older people out there.

Victoria Volk: Well, in thirty, forty year olds that can't do what you can do, wouldn't even dare do what you've done?

Scott Forrester: Yeah. I throughout my life, I have shunned any job that involved eight hours a day of sitting.

Victoria Volk: Oh, Yeah. Sitting if they face sitting as the new smoking.

Scott Forrester: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No. That was the same.

Victoria Volk: Well, thank you so much for your time today and sharing about Lee and stealth and your father and your and your mother and all the wisdom that you brought to our conversation, I I thank you for your time.

Scott Forrester: Thank you. You are an an excellent host to enjoy talking to you. Get in touch with me if you wanna learn more about the fellow price benefits.

Victoria Volk: And where can people find you if they would like to get in touch with you?

Scott Forrester: I'm actually reworking my website, but you can get all my contact information off of the aware athlete dot com.

Victoria Volk: K. I will put

Scott Forrester: a link. Not the aware athlete. Aware athlete dot com.

Victoria Volk: Aware athlete dot com. And I will put a link to that in the show notes as well.

Scott Forrester: I'm actually yeah. I'm I'm I'm actually working on a website that's not really live yet, the aware human.

Victoria Volk: Okay. I like that.

Scott Forrester: Yeah. And you can find my books. You wear athlete book. Your warehouse to find that you should put in the warehouse, the entire title I won't give you the subtitled now. But the awareness, like, by Scott Forrester, you can find that on Amazon.

Victoria Volk: And I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well. Yeah.

Scott Forrester: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Victoria Volk: Thank you. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Watch your growth.