Denise Schonwald | Critical Care Nurse to Holistic Healing: Empowering Emotional Wellness

Welcome to another profound episode of Grieving Voices, where we explore the emotional intricacies of dealing with loss and healing.

Today's guest is Denise Schonwald, a registered nurse turned nationally licensed therapist. With her holistic approach to care that encompasses mental, physical, and spiritual well-being, she offers insights into nurturing both body and mind.

In this episode:

• Discover how Denise transitioned from critical care nursing into mental health support.
• Understand why honoring commitments is crucial for personal trust and self-care.
• Learn about the high burnout rates in nursing - especially post-COVID - and how self-care can prevent it.
• Explore the importance of emotional intelligence in recognizing when you're inflicting suffering on yourself through poor self-care choices.
• Gain strategies for managing anger effectively without damaging relationships or your own well-being.
• Delve into people pleasing: why we do it, its impacts on our lives, and how to establish healthier boundaries.
• Hear about grief's "waiting room" – what keeps us there and how to move forward.

Denise's journey from a nurse fascinated by the intricacies of human anatomy to a spiritual teacher and family mediator is nothing short of inspiring. She has woven her experiences into a tapestry that offers comfort and guidance to those navigating emotional turmoil.

Through her narrative, Denise uncovers an essential truth: honoring personal commitments is pivotal. When we falter on these promises to ourselves, trust erodes, leaving us vulnerable to self-inflicted suffering. 

Self-care isn't just about indulgence; it's preventative maintenance for our souls—something Denise has embraced through meditation and mindful practices like Reiki. These practices have been instrumental in managing stress levels after witnessing patients' crises firsthand as a critical care nurse and mental health professional.

Denise sheds light on how emotions like frustration are precursors to anger—an emotion many grapple with yet struggle to manage effectively. 

RESOURCES:

• Book | Insightful Self-Therapy - Increasing Your Awareness about Mental Health and How to Live a Happier Life
• Book | The Four Agreements

Transcript

Victoria Volk
00:00:00 - 00:00:38
Welcome to grieving voices. Thank you for joining me today and listening. And today I have Denise Schonewald with me. She is a dedicated registered nurse for over 30 years, a seamlessly transitioned into a nationally licensed mental health counselor and published author based in Sarasota, Florida. With a deep understanding of the emotional challenges faced by patients and their families, Denise's holistic approach integrates mental and physical well-being. As a spiritual teacher and certified family mediator, she brings a unique perspective to her private practice, offering support to clients nationwide through virtual sessions.

Victoria Volk
00:00:39 - 00:00:55
Denise is committed to nurturing both body and mind, providing flexible and accessible care for individuals, couples, families and even young thinkers starting at the age of 4. Thank you so much for being here and also thank you for a copy of your book.

Denise Schonwald
00:00:56 - 00:00:59
Oh, terrific. I'm glad you received it. Welcome.

Victoria Volk
00:01:00 - 00:01:30
It's insightful self-therapy, increasing your awareness about mental health and how to live a happier life. And I will put a link to that in the show notes, and we'll actually be talking. I'll be there's a couple of things I have noted that I would like to talk about that you mentioned in the book, but first I'm curious what brought you into the nursing profession and you know, it's in a way a healer profession. What brought you there?

Denise Schonwald
00:01:31 - 00:02:07
Well, I love how fascinating and sophisticated the body is. So I always saw myself in some sort of nursing. I considered just very briefly being a physician, but and I love also helping people. I did my specialty was critical care, and working with people who are very sick and dying is quite an honor and very stressful. And I just it was just a wonderful career until I was getting to the point where I was getting too old to do the grind of 12-hour shifts and call and nights and weekends and holidays.

Denise Schonwald
00:02:07 - 00:02:13
And so the transition for me to into mental health was an easy one. 

Victoria Volk
00:02:13 - 00:02:19
What would you say to a young person who is just pursuing a career in nursing?

Denise Schonwald
00:02:20 - 00:02:58
I think a lot of people go into nursing, a lot of the young people that I meet, because it's a wonderful career. I mean, you certainly have a lot of opportunities. You can certainly do very well financially. But what I really encourage them to do is not to forget that these are people that are going through very tough experiences. And I think a lot of times, we get caught with the clinical aspect of ordering meds and titrating drips and so forth, and we forget that these patients are going through something very very difficult, probably one of the most difficult things I've ever gone through, not only physically, but emotionally and sometimes spiritually.

Victoria Volk
00:02:59 - 00:03:18
What do you think is the highest indicator or greatest indicator of a nurse who will burn out in that career because they can be a very high burnout rate in that career as well, especially with COVID. I mean, you can you saw it. We saw it happening before our eyes.

Denise Schonwald
00:03:19 - 00:03:45
Yes. One thing when people are either physically sick or emotionally struggling, they pull energy. They only they're thinking about themselves. They're focused on themselves, rightly so, because they're sick. And as healers and helpers, we understand that it takes a lot out of us to try to help them and nurture them, not only physically and emotionally.

Denise Schonwald
00:03:45 - 00:04:00
And when nurses and physicians and and mental health counselors don't do their own work, so when we get home, we have to recover from that with self-care and exercise and rest, then we're likely to burn out.

Victoria Volk
00:04:01 - 00:04:17
In your book, one thing I jotted down was, and I didn't really think about this in terms of how we can inflict suffering on ourselves, but I think there's actually a book. Oh gosh. The four agreements. 

Denise Schonwald
00:04:17 - 00:04:18
Yeah. Love it.

Victoria Volk
00:04:18 - 00:04:35
Yeah. Yeah. But you mentioned in your book, the importance of honoring commitments. And when you think about the flip side of that, of dishonoring our commitments, and one of the commitments can be self-care to ourselves, right? Just self-care.

Denise Schonwald
00:04:35 - 00:04:35
Yeah.

Victoria Volk
00:04:36 - 00:04:40
But can you speak a little bit about the importance of honoring our commitments?

Denise Schonwald
00:04:42 - 00:05:10
If you think about relationships, the only thing that we can sort of we rely on with each other is trust. And when I tell you that I'm going to do something or you tell me that you're going to help me with something and you don't do that, that really betrays my trust. And so that's difficult to recover from. But what I find more frequently is people, and individuals really don't honor themselves. They don't get enough self-care.

Denise Schonwald
00:05:10 - 00:05:34
They don't, sometimes when I talk to patients about self-care, they say, I don't have time for that. And I say, well, you'll either make time for self-care or you're gonna have to make time for illness because the body cannot sustain if we don't nurture it. And I'm not really sure why as a society now, we're neglecting our own self-care care for sacrificing it for helping others.

Victoria Volk
00:05:37 - 00:06:10
You know, there's been periods of time in my life where I've been guilty of sabotaging my own self-care. It's like in those moments of, like, extreme challenge or being confronted with something really challenging, that that's when you need to double down on your self-care. And me personally, I think I've had to learn that lesson several times. Like, okay, this is when I need to really double down on taking a break and needing a mental break. And so I'm glad that you mentioned that in your book.

Victoria Volk
00:06:11 - 00:06:41
In that same vein, you talk there's another aspect of your book where you talk about the importance of emotional intelligence. And I think as we develop that emotional intelligence, we have that obviously more self-awareness when we realize that we're self-sabotaging our self, you know, our own self-care and things like that. What have you found in your practice has been helpful for people that you've worked with and even for yourself in developing emotional intelligence?

Denise Schonwald
00:06:42 - 00:06:57
Here's a very easy way. 1 is notice, not judge. Notice how as an individual that we're starting to act. Are we all of a sudden very irritable? Are we going to the refrigerator one too many times for more food?

Denise Schonwald
00:06:57 - 00:07:26
Usually, when we're very stressed emotionally, we go for sugar and carbs just automatically. Watch how much we're drinking. If we're smoking, watch how much we're smoking because the body is trying to balance. And if we're not doing healthy things, the mind becomes very active, and we start reaching for things in the environment that are unhealthy, spending, too much screen time. It's something that the body is trying to find ease.

Denise Schonwald
00:07:26 - 00:07:30
But, unfortunately, if the mind's in charge, it's likely not gonna be a good choice.

Victoria Volk
00:07:31 - 00:08:10
My personal go-to is anger. So when I'm, like, just this last week, last week was a doozy of a week. I had some credit card fraud on my website, and it's like when I thought that the week couldn't start off any worse, it snowballed. I've lost access to my business Facebook page. Like, it's been just technical, like stupid stuff that, I actually like the Facebook page thing was my own stupidity, not realizing what I was doing, but it's really created a lot of anger to come up inside me.

Victoria Volk
00:08:10 - 00:08:27
And I find that when I'm angry, and I would love to talk about anger more because I think it's a really important emotion that we have. But when I find that I'm getting angry, I don't eat. I don't drink. I don't want it. I don't want people to even talk to me.

Victoria Volk
00:08:28 - 00:08:32
Don't talk to me. I just I need to sit with my anger.

Denise Schonwald
00:08:32 - 00:08:33
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:08:33 - 00:09:01
And I know not everybody's like that. Like, a lot of people will just that like you said, they'll reach for the refrigerator or they'll go shopping to distract themselves. But for me, it's like I have and it I it doesn't come out very pretty either. So, like, how do you reconcile that? Like, when the anger is coming out and up, it's like and you have people around you and you don't wanna be, you know, you don't wanna be a jerk.

Denise Schonwald
00:09:01 - 00:09:01
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:09:01 - 00:09:07
What is your advice for that? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people out there listening like, that's me.

Denise Schonwald
00:09:07 - 00:09:25
Yes. One of the things, as a therapist that I do when I meet someone is I'm trying to figure out where they are emotionally. Like, where is their emotional frequency? It's actually measured in something called Hertz. Anger is around a 150 Hertz.

Denise Schonwald
00:09:25 - 00:09:52
So it's a low vibrational energy, but it's got a lot of intensity. So anger, ego, jealousy, they're all around the same sort of frequency. And when we get to that point, we likely are going to say something or do something. We can no longer hold it in. And after we say something or do something, likely, we feel either very guilty or shameful about how we just acted out.

Denise Schonwald
00:09:53 - 00:10:27
And then many times, we feel very sad and depressed. Both anger and shame and depression are take a lot of energy from the body, both very extreme emotions. For me, personally, when I want to say something out of anger or ego, let somebody know how I really feel, I remind myself not to say a word. Because even if I do, it's not likely going to be well received. I will say, however, right now, I really don't feel like I'm in a good place to talk about this.

Denise Schonwald
00:10:27 - 00:10:38
I would like a little time to, you know, think about it or whatever I wanna say just to give myself a little bit of space knowing that I'm going to very dangerous territory because I'm already pretty darn angry.

Victoria Volk
00:10:40 - 00:10:45
And it's not even like I'm getting angry at people around me. They're just trying to ask me a question 

Denise Schonwald
00:10:45 - 00:10:45
Mmm

Victoria Volk
00:10:46 - 00:11:17
or they're and I'm just so wrapped up in my own anger that I can't even have a conversation. But you bring up a good point. I never I so one of the service offerings I have is, biofuel tuning with tuning forks. And so it's interesting that you mentioned the hurts of anger, because I never thought personally to get out my tuning fork, maybe just come to my office, light a candle and you know, just strike my fork

Denise Schonwald
00:11:18 - 00:11:18
Yes.

Victoria Volk
00:11:18 - 00:11:19
Few times.

Denise Schonwald
00:11:19 - 00:11:35
Vibrational energy to go a little bit higher 

Victoria Volk
00:11:21 - 00:11:21
Yeah

Denise Schonwald
00:11:21 - 00:11:35
to get through that anger. Yes. The other thing is underneath anger, and I when I work with little children who have anger issues, I pretend it's an umbrella. And I say, what's underneath the angry umbrella? I'm frustrated.

Denise Schonwald
00:11:35 - 00:11:50
I'm overwhelmed. I'm disappointed. And I try to give them some language so that it doesn't just come out in door slamming or screaming or calling names. And I go, okay. Let's let's think about the what's under the angry umbrella.

Denise Schonwald
00:11:50 - 00:11:52
It's actually very helpful for me too.

Victoria Volk
00:11:53 - 00:11:59
I will probably remember the umbrella the next time because I'm sure this issue that I'm dealing with is not over yet. And so, I'm suspecting some more anger will pop up 

Denise Schonwald
00:12:00 - 00:12:00
uh-humm

Victoria Volk
00:12:00 - 00:12:39
as a result, but, thank you for that. I also wanna talk about people pleasing, which you mentioned in your book too, because just this past weekend, there was a skit on SNL. Ariana Grande was on and it was a people-pleasing support group skit. And, you know, it was it kinda was making fun of the people pleasing, but it had it was interesting that SNL is addressing this on their show 

Denise Schonwald
00:12:40 - 00:12:40
Mmmor 

Victoria Volk
00:12:40 - 00:12:41
talking about it on their show in this way.

Victoria Volk
00:12:41 - 00:12:56
But, you know, what people were saying was, oh, no worries. You know, because they had their lines to say, and one of them was, no worries. Whatever you decide and, you know, what do you think? Well, I'm I'm okay with whatever you think, you know, and so it was kind of exaggerating things. Right?

Victoria Volk
00:12:56 - 00:13:25
But I heard myself in what they were saying in some of these things, like, no worries, you know. What is what are some techniques for people to stop themselves when to recognize again, it's developing that emotional intelligence about people pleasing first, but what are some suggestions that you have for people to get out of that? First of all, why do we do it? And then secondly, how do we stop it?

Denise Schonwald
00:13:26 - 00:13:37
Well, the reason why we do it is when someone's unhappy or they don't have something, it causes us a lot of anxiety, and we want to go in and fix it. And I might say, well, I wanna do it because I wanna help them but what I really want to do is make myself feel better about it.

Victoria Volk
00:13:37 - 00:13:37
Mmm..

Denise Schonwald
00:13:38 - 00:14:09
And so we have to be careful of that. And so what I tell a lot of people is when somebody's unhappy or some they're going through something, you can be supportive without fixing it. Because sometimes when we please, every the other person gets very resentful and frustrated because we're coming in and we're trying to just rescue and take care of when that's not what they've asked for.

Denise Schonwald
00:14:09 - 00:14:45
They're just letting us know they're upset about something or some situation. But what happens with people pleasers, if we can imagine drawing a circle, and inside the circle should be our personal values and ethics and what makes us different from the next person. What is it that we know to be true about us? And when we meet people, they will figure out fairly quickly what's inside our circle, what our values are, and they will like us or not like us or align with us or not. Does it mean one's good or bad?

Denise Schonwald
00:14:45 - 00:15:17
Just means we understand and we appreciate each other or we don't. The people pleaser circle has a lot of gaps in it. And what happens with them, unfortunately, is they will fall prey to people who are very manipulative and controlling. Because somebody who's manipulative and controlling, they're masterful at finding a people pleaser. And so when the people pleaser pleases, they'll walk away knowing that they really may not have wanted to do what they just volunteered to do.

Denise Schonwald
00:15:18 - 00:15:34
And then they get a lot of they betrayed themselves, and they also have supported somebody to be very manipulative and to be very unkind. And that is really hard on the body. 

Victoria Volk
00:15:34 - 00:15:34
You can see why.

Denise Schonwald
00:15:35 - 00:15:35
Mhmm. 

Victoria Volk
00:15:35 - 00:15:45 
So in the dynamics of friendship and when we think about grief and what I hear a lot too is and I know people that have had this personal experience, but when you are going through something really challenging and you're reaching out to people and they're not showing up in a way that you need them to

Denise Schonwald
00:15:46 - 00:15:46
Mhmm. 

Victoria Volk
00:15:47 - 00:16:23 
or are asking them to, how do you reconcile that where I don't know how I'm trying to ask this, because it kind of revolves around people pleasing. It's like, what if 2 people pleasers? I guess. You know, if you're 2 people pleasers, and then you one person has, like, a really difficult time and needs the other person, and yet they can't they just can't do it.

Victoria Volk
00:16:23 - 00:16:39
They just they're not able to support you. And so how do you reconcile honoring where someone else is at that they just can't support you in that time? Because this can happen with grievers too a lot. Right? 

Denise Schonwald
00:16:40 - 00:16:40
Yes

Victoria Volk
00:16:40 - 00:16:47
Like, this is where friendships kind of can break down and break apart, because people aren't showing up for you how you hoped.

Denise Schonwald
00:16:47 - 00:16:47
Yes

Victoria Volk
00:16:48 - 00:16:50
Yeah. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Denise Schonwald
00:16:50 - 00:17:36
And I think with people pleasers, I think sort of the fear is that they're going to hurt or disappoint someone. And what I try to do is help them with language because you can express how you feel without being insulting or dismissive. What I have found with grief is many people get very uncomfortable with grief, and they don't know what to say, so they will say something very insensitive. Not meaning to, but they can hurt your feelings because they just sort of speak out of fear, and then they say something that is very hurtful. So what I tell people is understand that it's just a very uncomfortable situation, and a lot of people don't really feel comfortable navigating it.

Denise Schonwald
00:17:37 - 00:17:56
If they're offering something that you really don't want or won't appreciate, it's thank you so much. That's so thoughtful. Maybe next week would be better to drop off whatever, some food or something like that. It's always complimenting and appreciating, but then also letting them know what would work best.

Victoria Volk
00:17:59 - 00:18:01
So you bring up boundaries 

Denise Schonwald
00:18:01 - 00:18:01
Yes

Victoria Volk
00:18:01 - 00:18:03
in a way in a roundabout way.

Denise Schonwald
00:18:03 - 00:18:03
I do.

Victoria Volk
00:18:04 - 00:18:12
So, I actually wanted to talk about that because you have a great exercise for creating boundaries in your book. Do you mind sharing that?

Denise Schonwald
00:18:12 - 00:18:16
Well, is that about the circle? Is that what I talked about about the 2nd?

Victoria Volk
00:18:16 - 00:18:20
Yes. Yes. You did. Yeah. You did touch on that when it came to yeah.

Denise Schonwald
00:18:20 - 00:18:38
Yes. And so what I tell people when your circle is clearly defined, you don't have to defend it. You don't have to overexplain it. You don't have to get nasty when somebody but people will test boundaries. They want to know, like, what you will accept, what you won't tolerate.

Denise Schonwald
00:18:39 - 00:18:55
It's very important that we all understand that. As a therapist, as you can imagine, I get a lot of good experience and practice with boundaries. People are can be very manipulative, and why can't you do this, and why can't you see me there? And I said, listen. I would be happy to.

Denise Schonwald
00:18:55 - 00:19:16
Unfortunately, I'm not able to do it today, but I certainly have time tomorrow or Wednesday. If that's acceptable to them, they go, okay. Thank you very much. If it's not, that means that they're not that there's no boundary there. They don't they would prefer that I don't have boundaries, and it's not going to be a good fit.

Denise Schonwald
00:19:16 - 00:19:30
I don't wanna support them to be manipulative and abusive, nor do I want to run myself to the point where I'm exhausted and I'm no good to anyone. So I honor them, and I also honor myself with boundaries.

Victoria Volk
00:19:31 - 00:19:52
I was just gonna say, and that's where a lot of helpers get themselves into trouble is yeah. And it and that ties in with the people pleasing. Right? Where you just you want to be supportive, you wanna be helpful, and it's often to your own detriment when you're not recognizing or acknowledging that boundaries are healthy, and they're good for both parties involved.

Denise Schonwald
00:19:52 - 00:20:18
They really are. And if we don't have, boundaries, what we end up doing is have being very bitter and resentful. Because we feel like people are taking advantage of us, and they are, but we're also allowing that. So we also have to take responsibility for that. And, again, it's getting comfortable just having these conversations nicely and then allowing the other person to accept it or not.

Victoria Volk
00:20:19 - 00:21:05
Yep. Absolutely. What I like you what you said about grief too, you know, when you get to that point where all these things just kind of where you realize you need boundaries and you start honoring your own commitments and you're recognizing that you're a people pleaser and you're doing all these things and you have all this awareness, you can find yourself in a lot of grief just because like you said, when you're start implementing these things in your life and having these awarenesses, people can it can rub people the wrong way. And that's where these, you know, friendships and relationships can deteriorate as a result. 

Denise Schonwald
00:21:01 - 00:21:01
Mmm.

Victoria Volk
00:21:01 - 00:21:06
And there's grief in that, especially if it's been a long-time friend or whatever the scenario may be, or even a marriage or a partnership and, and things.

Victoria Volk
00:21:06 - 00:21:10
I like how you said grief is it's like you can become stuck in the waiting room. 

Denise Schonwald
00:21:10 - 00:21:10
Mmm

Victoria Volk
00:21:11 - 00:21:29
And so many people get stuck in the waiting room. And me personally, I was stuck in the waiting room Most of my adult life. I was a child griever and I, you know, you carry that stuff with you from childhood into adulthood and all the trauma and the mess and the baggage. Right?

Denise Schonwald
00:21:29 - 00:21:29
Mmm

Victoria Volk
00:21:29 - 00:21:42
You carry it with you into adulthood. And, I mean, only in the past 5 years, have I had this leaps and bounds of self-awareness and growth and reconnecting with my own intuition and my own knowing.

Denise Schonwald
00:21:42 - 00:21:42
Mmm

Victoria Volk
00:21:43 - 00:21:55
But can you speak to the philosophy you have about that and then about treating grief with medication and your philosophy around that?

Denise Schonwald
00:21:56 - 00:22:27
One of the things about grief, and I tell people this all the time, there's no way of going around it. You have to just go through it. And you we're we get so frightened of pain. But also with pain is I try to remind people, and this has been helpful in my own life, I try to look for meaning. Because what you said was so true about relationships, people that you think will show up for you sometimes don't, and people that you think really didn't even know you that well will show up.

Denise Schonwald
00:22:28 - 00:23:04
So grief will cause this major shift, and what you're gonna get from it, hard to say. And it's just something that that it just surprises me. But what I tried to find through my own grieving times is what how can I come through this a better person? One thing about with death, even back when I was in my critical care days, is boy I had such an appreciation for life and relationships and so forth. Also, for me to be more compassionate when other people are grieving.

Denise Schonwald
00:23:04 - 00:23:27
We tend to go to the funeral and maybe check in once, and then we go on to our daily lives. But yet, that's when it's the most difficult, you know, when things start to settle down. And so I've made myself a mental note to reach out to a lot of people that are grieving and suffering, just checking in. Not offering to help, not offering to just hey. How are you doing?

Denise Schonwald
00:23:27 - 00:23:33
Giving them that space to just speak their truth and how they're feeling. It's very important.

Victoria Volk
00:23:35 - 00:24:03
Do you find working in the mental health or the area of mental health and obviously with and things like that. Do you find because I've I'm feeling like, you know, there's so much heaviness in the world. There's so much sorrow and, suffering. Really? I mean, suffering.

Victoria Volk
00:24:03 - 00:24:03
Yeah.

Denise Schonwald
00:24:03 - 00:24:04
I agree.

Victoria Volk
00:24:04 - 00:24:53
It's like, I feel like sometimes I just want to cocoon myself. And it's like, you know, when you are work and when you work in this space, it's like sometimes I think to myself, do people expect that I should do or behave or respond a certain way because I'm the grief expert or I work with grievers or the mental health expert, and I'm, you know, working with patients and families. And I know all this stuff, and I'm a helper. Like, how do you reconcile that for those listening, who are helpers, who are working in this space. Because to me, sometimes it is it feels like too much.

Victoria Volk
00:24:53 - 00:25:02
And that's where I know I need to then maybe address some self-care within myself, but can you speak to that a little bit?

Denise Schonwald
00:25:02 - 00:25:32
It it's very true. And so when you're finding that it's all so overwhelming and it's so heavy, we need to go in and go, okay. What do I need so that I'm in a better, I'm sort of in a better fitness state to handle and to share space with this person who's grieving? But, you know, at the end of the day, we're all human beings, and it does affect us. Just because we don't know this person or who's lost somebody doesn't mean we don't feel that energy.

Denise Schonwald
00:25:32 - 00:25:57
That energy that their experience is pulling. They're pulling from us because they want support and they want help and they're they're struggling and they're suffering, and yet that's gonna take a toll on us. You asked me before about medication.

Victoria Volk
00:25:49 - 00:25:49
Yeah

Denise Schonwald
00:25:49 - 00:25:57
That's something as a nurse, I understand that sometimes medication is needed, but we also have to go through this grieving process. We're not gonna get around it.

Denise Schonwald
00:25:57 - 00:26:12
We can try to numb it a little bit, but it's very very painful. Some people can't survive it. They've been married 50 years and their spouse dies. They tend to go right after them because it's so heavy on the heart in particular.

Victoria Volk
00:26:13 - 00:26:29
Yeah. Thank you for circling back to that question. And even for me personally, it's not even that I think you know, it's not even people reaching out to me asking me but it's like this I feel like this maybe a sense of duty in a way.

Denise Schonwald
00:26:30 - 00:26:30
Mmm

Victoria Volk
00:26:30 - 00:26:34
And then I feel guilt when I don't. And so that's a little bit hard to reconcile for myself sometimes.

Denise Schonwald
00:26:35 - 00:27:10
Well and sometimes you need to make sure you're in a good space to like, for instance, if somebody's people that don't know that I'm a therapist, if they catch me at the grocery store, I'll say something like, listen. I'm really sorry this has happened to you. Why don't you give me a call so we can meet privately or something like that? I just don't know that I'm in a good mental space to have this conversation, you know, standing in the and the deli guy or whatever and so forth. And so I understand that it's important to them, but I also have to make sure that I'm in a good place because I wanna give them my 100% focus.

Denise Schonwald
00:27:11 - 00:27:15
And I'm not in a good place when I'm out doing errands and so forth.

Victoria Volk
00:27:16 - 00:27:19
Yeah. And that's great advice for the helpers listening to this. 

Denise Schonwald
00:27:19 - 00:27:25
Mhmm. Yes. We've we all, sometimes have to go through that challenge.

Victoria Volk
00:27:26 - 00:27:59
We had talked before we started recording, talking about grief. And one of the things I would like to talk about is supporting kids because we had, you had mentioned that you, there's been a lot of loss for your children or your son over the years and throughout his school years and into adulthood. And I think one of the things that hasn't really been talked about a whole lot from a mental health standpoint is supporting, kids who have lost friends. 

Denise Schonwald
00:27:59 - 00:27:59
Mmm

Victoria Volk
00:28:00 - 00:28:05
And so can you share your professional and parental because it was also your son, right, from that like, the two halves of that?

Denise Schonwald
00:28:06 - 00:28:31
Yes. My son, who is now 28, probably lost 10 friends between 18 and 25, many to drug overdose, suicide. And you know, how do you and as parents, we wanna we don't want them to suffer because they're our children, and we wanna make it easier for them. But, again, this is something we gotta go through. We can't go around.

Denise Schonwald
00:28:31 - 00:29:09
So all I have been able to do, and and the most recent one was just a couple years ago for my son, his very good friend committed suicide, This is to really sort of sit down and say, how are you doing? How are you feeling? Just because it's an uncomfortable conversation, but it's one that he needs the space to grieve. It can be very painful for me to hear it because he's my son, and I don't want him to suffer. But it's also important that he know that I'm willing to sit with him in that time and in that space and be as comfortable as I can when he's uncomfortable.

Denise Schonwald
00:29:10 - 00:29:11
So but it's tough.

Victoria Volk
00:29:12 - 00:29:19
One of the common things that people say in grief is when people are asked, you know, how are you feeling? How are you doing? Most people say I'm fine. 

Denise Schonwald
00:29:19 - 00:29:19
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:29:20 - 00:29:26
And in the grief work that I do, we say that fine means feelings inside not expressed.

Denise Schonwald
00:29:26 - 00:29:26
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:29:27 - 00:29:45
So it's really just a mask. Right? That we say. So what are some things that you suggest then if you ask your son or your child or young adult or whether they're 5 or 15 or 25 and you ask them how they're doing or how they're feeling and they say I'm fine, when do you press that?

Victoria Volk
00:29:45 - 00:29:50
Or how do you press that? And do you just keep asking until they say otherwise?

Denise Schonwald
00:29:50 - 00:30:00
Well, the other thing that yeah. I'm I'm very intuitive. So I'll I'll say something like, you know, how are you doing since you've lost such and such? And if they go, yeah. I'm doing really well.

Denise Schonwald
00:30:00 - 00:30:16
They seem to be very dismissive of it. I'll say, listen. You know, if at any time you wanna talk about it, I'm I'm happy to have the conversation. Because it's a little bit tough when you don't wanna have the conversation, and somebody goes, well, just tell me. Just tell me or just share with me.

Denise Schonwald
00:30:16 - 00:30:37
And, you know, that's also a boundary. But I like to sort of create the opening of listen, if you ever have a tough time with it, I'm more than happy you know, give me a call. I'm more than happy to talk to you and sit with you during this. But we have to understand that some people everybody deals with grief differently in their own way, and we need to honor that.

Victoria Volk
00:30:37 - 00:30:57
So what if you as the parent is uncomfortable with the topic of grief, period? And how do you get yourself more comfortable in having that conversation? Like, if you're not confident in how you would respond or how you would support them, you may not be inclined to even ask. So how do you get to that point as a parent?

Denise Schonwald
00:30:58 - 00:31:17
Right. Well, so what maybe what you're asking or what you're suggesting is that the parent feels very anxious and very fearful of doing that. And so when we do that, we only think about ourselves. So we pull in and go, oh, I don't wanna have this conversation. I don't wanna feel uncomfortable and so forth.

Denise Schonwald
00:31:18 - 00:31:54
And what you were saying with your tuning forks to get your vibrational energy a little bit higher is for me to say, I'm okay to be uncomfortable to just open this space for this person to express themselves. And what I tend to do when I'm uncomfortable is I try to listen more than speak so that I don't say something that I wish I hadn't said. So I open the opportunity for conversation unless they don't seem to wanna have it, and then I assure them that, listen. I'm happy to talk to you if you want to. If not, no problem.

Denise Schonwald
00:31:54 - 00:31:57
Just want you to know that I'm just checking in and hope you're doing well.

Victoria Volk
00:31:59 - 00:32:09
Yeah. And you touched on it, but I think a lot of people think they have to have the solution, right or the fix it. 

Denise Schonwald
00:32:09 - 00:32:09
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:32:10 - 00:32:15
And sometimes you just need to listen, and that's maybe the best medicine is just to listen. You don't even, you know, release that pressure from yourself to have to have to respond.

Victoria Volk
00:32:16 - 00:32:18
And just like like you said, just listen.

Denise Schonwald
00:32:18 - 00:32:22
Yes. I like to say, just checking in, see how you're doing. So just it's really light. 

Victoria Volk
00:32:22 - 00:32:22
Mhmm. 

Denise Schonwald
00:32:23 - 00:32:28
And if they say, you know, doing this well as can be expected, I'll say, okay.

Denise Schonwald
00:32:28 - 00:32:31
Just want you to know I was thinking about you. Maybe that's enough.

Victoria Volk
00:32:32 - 00:32:49
Right. What is one thing that you would like to scream to the world or wish that people knew about just grief in general, your personal grief that you've experienced? You had mentioned before we started recording, you have lost your parents, but what would you like to scream to the world?

Denise Schonwald
00:32:50 - 00:33:17
With any time someone comes into your life that I would say touches your soul, when they leave this earth, there's going to be suffering and grief. That's just a natural part of it. I try personally not to pull in and suffer by myself. These are times where I can connect with other people. These are times when other people will come in to support me, and I need to receive that.

Denise Schonwald
00:33:18 - 00:33:39
Certainly, with grief and any sort of suffering, there's meaning. I think about my parents and some of the wonderful things that they taught me and left me as a legacy. You know, something's not so great, but I can let those go. And to me, that's very meaningful. My my sister and I talk about my mom all the time because she had some, like, silly habits.

Denise Schonwald
00:33:39 - 00:34:03
And then we'll notice ourselves doing the same silly thing, and we connect, and we think of her in a positive light. I certainly, when I leave this earth, don't want my children every time they think of me to burst into tears. No. I certainly know that they'll grieve me, but I also hope that I've left a lot of goodness in them that they will think of me and smile, say some nice things. That's my hope anyway.

Victoria Volk
00:34:04 - 00:34:14
I'm pretty sure my kids will probably say, you know, she was pretty weird. They say I'm weird now. So I take that as a compliment though.

Denise Schonwald
00:34:14 - 00:34:14
Yeah. Absolutely.

Victoria Volk
00:34:15 - 00:34:32
So throughout your career, I mean, as you know, a critical care nurse, like what were some of the things before you had these tools and before you went to school and back to school for mental health, what were some of the things that you personally leaned on and that you've brought into your practice and kind of incorporated?

Denise Schonwald
00:34:33 - 00:34:51
For me personally, self-care is key. I start every day with about 15 minutes of meditation just to sort of keep get myself grounded and sort of to find my center, if you will. I work hard, but I also take time. I exercise every day. For me, that's something that I really need to do.

Denise Schonwald
00:34:52 - 00:35:11
Just just really helps me just disconnect for a little while. I'm very careful with my screen time. My first hour of the day, no screen time, and I shut it down a couple hours before I go to bed just so that I can my mind can take a little bit of a break. I'm a big proponent of acupuncture. Reiki, I love quite a bit.

Denise Schonwald
00:35:11 - 00:35:23
Massage, not saying you need to do these every week, but sporadically, depending upon how you're feeling, incorporate some of these wonderful practices for just overall health and healing.

Victoria Volk
00:35:23 - 00:35:32
Did you start doing these things as you were a critical care nurse too in the within in the 30 years or just in recent years?

Denise Schonwald
00:35:32 - 00:35:52
I had a defining moment one night in the ICU. I was looking around at all of the patients that we had, and I realized some were just at the end of their lives. They were, you know, in their nineties and maybe had a heart attack and so forth. But most of the patients that we had sort of put themselves there. They neglected their body.

Denise Schonwald
00:35:52 - 00:36:19
They were stressed out. They were smoking, diabetes, and I made a commitment to myself that if I were ever in the ICU, it wouldn't be because I did something to contribute to that. And then when I went over to mental health, I felt the same thing. I was like, boy, you know, we me included, and I really start to invested, invest more in my mental health. And I realized that when we don't we're not mentally healthy, we're eventually going to become physically ill.

Denise Schonwald
00:36:20 - 00:36:30
And so I understand how important it is for me to manage. And this is my responsibility, my own stress and wellness, so that I can stay healthy and happy.

Victoria Volk
00:36:31 - 00:36:48
You bring up a good point in that. Well, it just brings up the feeling in me that you can have, let's say you've been you have a there's a couple they've been married 30, 40 years or, or even not. Let's say it's just been maybe 5 or 10, like or significant other. You don't have to be married. Right?

Denise Schonwald
00:36:48 - 00:36:48
Mmm.

Victoria Volk
00:36:48 - 00:37:35
In partnership with someone. And you see these people just like one or the other, or maybe even both, just kind of going about life and just eating whatever they eat and drink whatever they eat, drink. And like you said, perpetuating these the disease that's probably slowly manifesting until it becomes a flow full-blown heart attack or stroke or whatever the case may be that lands them in the hospital or in a medical crisis or terminal illness or whatever the case may be. And then one of them becomes a caregiver.

Denise Schonwald
00:37:35 - 00:37:35
Mmm.

Victoria Volk
00:37:35 - 00:37:41
So for those listening who may find themselves as a caregiver, who are looking at their significant other who has put themselves in that position and now feel maybe anger,

Denise Schonwald
 00:37:42 -  00:37:42
Mmm.

Victoria Volk
00:37:42 - 00:37:42
resentment.

Denise Schonwald
 00:37:43 -  00:37:43
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:37:43 - 00:37:46
And to reconcile that as a caregiver, like it's like you're holding the both the reality and the grief. 

Denise Schonwald
 00:37:46 -  00:37:46
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:37:47 - 00:38:02
The reality of what you're looking at in the situation of what it is and how that person got there. And then also, but I love this person. I wanna care for them.

Victoria Volk
00:38:02 - 00:38:02
Like, 

Denise Schonwald
00:38:02 -  00:38:02
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:38:02 - 00:38:05
I think that's a really difficult challenge for caregivers.

Denise Schonwald
00:38:06 - 00:38:47
I agree. And what I suggest for people that are going through that is to consider having a therapist just to sort of, you know, catharsis or venting with somebody that can help us in coping skills can be very very healing. It's just hard when we have to go through it alone, particularly when they've got some sort of, like, dementia or something like that. It's you know, this is why these support groups are so important that we can sort of help each other. There's no way of eliminating it, or it's just getting some help to just sort of cope through it, cope with it, and also get other people that can help and support as needed.

Denise Schonwald
00:38:48 - 00:38:58
But I know my husband is is 15 years older than I am, and as his health has started to decline, I have reached out to my own therapist more frequently just for support.

Victoria Volk
00:38:58 - 00:39:15
Let's say you see where the train is going, and they're just not wanting to take the power back within themselves. They're not taking ownership of the situation. They're not doing what you would hope they would be doing. And I'm sure there's a lot of people in this situation listening. Right?

Victoria Volk
00:39:16 - 00:39:21
What do you do in that situation? Because you can't make somebody start working out. You can't make somebody seek mental health. 

Denise Schonwald
00:39:21 - 00:39:21
Yeah.

Victoria Volk
00:39:22 - 00:39:27
You can't make somebody else do these things. 

Denise Schonwald
00:39:27 - 00:39:32
Correct. And what what I see down here in Florida, we have a lot of people that obviously that retire and come down to Florida. 

Victoria Volk
00:39:32 - 00:39:32
Mhmm.

Denise Schonwald
00:39:33 - 00:40:03
But what I see typically is that neither husband or wife or partner has really prepared for sort of the end or the latter stages of life. For example, they have 2 or 3 homes, you know, and they're 80 years old. I mean, that's and they've never really downsized and so forth. Then one or the other gets sick, and the one person is not only caregiving but now has the 2 homes, you know, 1 in Michigan and 1 in Florida.

Denise Schonwald
00:40:03 - 00:40:38
And so what I say to them is, as you're starting to age, downsize and get something manageable, manageable for 2 or 1 because that may happen. But there's some things that we can do regardless of what our spouse chooses so that we're in a better position, maybe financially and logistically and so forth so that we're preparing for this. But I can't tell you how many times I've met with people that with the 3 homes. This is, you know, it's really unreasonable at 80.

Victoria Volk
00:40:39 - 00:40:44
Like you mentioned though, you made a statement something to the effect of planning for retirement or later years or the golden years ho you know, 

Denise Schonwald
00:40:44 - 00:40:44 
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:40:45 - 00:41:00
that time period in your life, we you know, so many people spend so much time financially preparing for that, but you don't think about what do I want my health to be

Denise Schonwald
00:41:00 - 00:41:00
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:41:01 - 00:41:02
At that stage. 

Denise Schonwald
00:41:02 - 00:41:02
Mhmm. 

Victoria Volk
00:41:03 - 00:41:17
And what's in my power and control to address that starting today so that when I get to that stage, I can enjoy it. Right. Because what's the point of getting to that period of your life if you are sick and you can't enjoy it?

Denise Schonwald
00:41:17 - 00:41:17
Yeah.

Victoria Volk
00:41:17 - 00:41:19
And I think yeah.

Denise Schonwald
00:41:19 - 00:41:57
And one of the things that I work with people in is when we become physically ill, depending upon what's happening, that has started on the emotional energetic level. So certain emotions will play out physically. And what happens is, you know, we're so afraid to deal with I don't, guilt or shame or trauma or so forth, but eventually they manifest physically. I cannot tell you how many patients that we had in the ICU, and they would say, can you believe I've had a heart attack? And I would look at their chart, and I'd be like, you know, I sort of can.

Denise Schonwald
00:41:57 - 00:42:11
I mean, you have a lot of risk factors and you don't take care of yourself. And yet, you know, we think that just because we don't wanna recognize it or acknowledge it, it's not gonna take have an impact on us, and it really does.

Victoria Volk
00:42:12 - 00:42:14
And everybody around them.

Denise Schonwald
00:42:15 - 00:42:29
Yes. Yes. And so I have to think, not only is it gonna affect me, but it's gonna affect my spouse, it's gonna affect my children. And you know, we have to take responsibility for that. But many people don't, unfortunately.

Victoria Volk
00:42:30 - 00:42:44
No. What is one tip that you would give? I mean, you've shared a lot of tips, but what's one tip that you would give to someone listening who is hurting, whether it's watching someone else suffer who is grieving or whether they're grieving themselves.

Denise Schonwald
00:42:44 - 00:43:02
Mhmm. Even when life is going fairly well. So we're going through our developmental stages and so forth. At every stage, it's a struggle, because we haven't done it before. And once the kids go off to college or we retire or we get a new job or whatever.

Denise Schonwald
00:43:04 - 00:43:33
I highly recommend I started to see a therapist every now and then back in my twenties. Because even again, when there's nothing really particularly wrong, certain stages are very difficult for me. When my husband retired, that was a major change because he was home all the time. I'm still working, and it for me, that was a struggle. And I really felt like I needed somebody just to other than my sister and my friends, and that's not their job, to be my therapist, but just talk through it.

Denise Schonwald
00:43:34 - 00:43:53
And I highly recommend everybody have a therapist, not just because I am one, because they're very very helpful. Find somebody that you connect with and find somebody that can work with you when you're really going through a tough time so that it doesn't play out physically and affect your life and others around you.

Victoria Volk
00:43:53 - 00:44:09
Well and when would you rather find a therapist? When you are in the emotional throes of something and it's like, feels very immediate, like stat important or 

Denise Schonwald
00:44:09 - 00:44:09
Mhmm. 

Victoria Volk
00:44:09- 00:44:14
When you can kinda ease yourself into the experience. Because for a lot of people, they may not never have had an experience of working with a therapist too.

Denise Schonwald
00:44:15 - 00:44:27
Yes. And it may be take a couple till they find somebody that's right for them. People will say to me all the time, can you recommend a good therapist? And I go, a good therapist is somebody that is right for you. So that's very important.

Denise Schonwald
00:44:27 - 00:44:34
And you're right. Let's not wait till we're right in the throes of crisis, and then we're scrambling to try to find somebody.

Victoria Volk
00:44:35 - 00:44:49
What would you say to people who don't really think therapy is for them because they just don't wanna, like, just talk about I just don't wanna talk about talk, talk, talk. Right?

Denise Schonwald
00:44:49 - 00:44:49
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:44:50 - 00:44:58
Like, what is your perspective of that? Like, do you core incorporate other things or, like, action steps and things into your practice?

Denise Schonwald
00:44:58 - 00:45:22
One of the things that I recommend for everybody is always have a self-help book around. I mean, there's thousands of them, and I always carry a book with me. And I'm I read and read and read. And, again, 1, 2 pages at a time because I sort of have a busy schedule and so forth. But there's always some advice and some keys and some ways to cope that can be very very helpful.

Denise Schonwald
00:45:22 - 00:45:33
So start that way where you start to just learn about yourself and emotions and how they affect the body and whatever you're interested in meditation and so forth, and then move from there.

Victoria Volk
00:45:34 - 00:46:14
That has actually been one of the catalysts for my growth is reading self-help books because at least to you know, it's like one book can lead to the next book to lead to the next book or you end up down this rabbit hole where you learn maybe a new perspective. And, you know, it just it really it's like, you didn't get to where you are overnight. You're not gonna get to where you want to go overnight.  So you might as well just take these incremental steps. And if it's reading 2 pages at a time, like you said, I mean, that's it's has a camp compound effect, 

Denise Schonwald
00:46:15 - 00:46:15
Yeah

Victoria Volk
00:46:15 - 00:46:17
you know, just like grief and trauma, and it has this compound effect, but we can chip away at that.

Victoria Volk
00:46:18 - 00:46:22
I think by doing the things that you've talked about and mentioned, 

Denise Schonwald
 00:46:22 -  00:46:22
Mhmm

Victoria Volk
00:46:23 - 00:46:23
in this episode.

Denise Schonwald
00:46:23 - 00:46:43
Plus it helps us when we connect with other people. I can't tell you how many times I'll be out and about and somebody will say thank you for recommending that book. And I have no memory of and I go, what book was that? And they go, oh, this book, it was so helpful. I rec I gave it to my sister and this is how we the power of our ripple in a positive way.

Denise Schonwald
00:46:43 - 00:46:43
Mhmm.

Denise Schonwald
00:46:43 - 00:46:57
Other than complaining or you know, connecting with people just over problems, we're actually connecting with people and recommending books and then talking about the books to each other and what we liked and what was helpful and so forth.

Victoria Volk
00:46:57 - 00:47:02
What is your grief and the grief that you've helped others work through taught you?

Denise Schonwald
00:47:04 - 00:47:26
I have a very good friend that lost her son at 16, so it sort of was a freak accident. And so now he's passed away a little over 10 years. And I said to her one night, how do you deal with it now that it's 10 years? You know, it's not like it's been 2 months and so forth. And she said, you know, she said, we'll never get over it.

Denise Schonwald
00:47:26 - 00:47:50
She said, but we've learned to live peacefully next to it. And I thought that that was such an interesting way to describe. She said, you know, it's just something that's always gonna be there, and you have to learn to be at peace with it living next to you. It's a wonderful question to ask people who are going who have are grieving 5 years down the road. Ask them, well, what is it like?

Denise Schonwald
00:47:50 - 00:48:08
Like, what is what are the challenges 5 years later or 15 years later and so forth? It's something that not only is helpful for them and also helpful for us. I never forgot that that's how she described it, and I thought that was so beautifully said.

Victoria Volk
00:48:08 - 00:48:21
One thing I talk about with my own experiences, so I lost my dad when I was 8 to cancer. So he was sick for almost 2 years before that. So I really didn't have much of a childhood. 

Denise Schonwald
00:48:21 - 00:48:21
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:48:21 - 00:48:28
Had to grow up really fast. And my grandma had died the year before that my mom, my mom's mom, and then my sister moved away.

Victoria Volk
00:48:28 - 00:48:49
So there was just a lot of change and trauma and things happen very back to back in the early part of my life. And one thing I say to people is that, especially with children who experienced grief or trauma in childhood is that they're gonna grow up with it.

Denise Schonwald
00:48:49 - 00:48:49
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:48:49 - 00:49:06
So and one thing I hate that people say is that children are resilient. Like, I can't stand that when people say that because children don't have a choice. And they just they may be just are able to adapt a little bit more easily than the adults because we don't have a capacity at that young age to wrap our head completely around it.

Denise Schonwald
00:49:06 - 00:49:06
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:49:06 - 00:49:28
And so we, we adapt and how, because we're imaginative. Right? As children were more imaginative.

Denise Schonwald
00:49:06 - 00:49:06
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:49:06 - 00:49:28
And so I created a lot of stories in order to adapt to my experience. And so people saw that as resilient and saw that I was fine and I was adapting well and but, you know, that stuff has stuck with you.

Victoria Volk
00:49:28 - 00:50:29
It you carry it with you and you grow up with it and it changes over time. 

Denise Schonwald
00:49:29 - 00:49:29
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:49:30 - 00:49:49
And that's what I want people to understand about child grievers is that it will never leave them. It is, you know, and there's so many people too. Like, I can recognize when I come across an adult who hasn't had probably a lot of loss in their life. They haven't had an experience that has completely flipped their life upside down or completely changed life for them,

Denise Schonwald
00:49:49 - 00:49:49
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:49:50 - 00:50:06
it's easier for me to see, you know, they and I think that's what helps build emotional intelligence too is grief and trauma.

Victoria Volk
00:50:06 - 00:50:09
I mean, would you kinda say that in a way?

Denise Schonwald
00:50:09 - 00:50:23
Yeah. And I always think where I'm going through it, why me? And then I think, well, why not me? Yeah. Because we, you know, we think that that's something somebody else should should experience. But I realized that it's important for me to experience too because it's very very painful.

Denise Schonwald
00:50:23 - 00:50:33
And it also helps me get have a new understanding of other people that are going through it. But you're right. You have to learn to look next to it because it doesn't go away.

Victoria Volk
00:50:34 - 00:50:37
Yeah. What gives you hope for the future?

Denise Schonwald
00:50:37 - 00:50:56
I absolutely love what I do, and I feel it's very fulfilling. It's also very challenging. And for me, certainly I my passion is I just finished my second children's book. I write books. That's sort of my ministry.

Denise Schonwald
00:50:57 - 00:51:07
I enjoy sharing what I know about mental health. I hope to help people live happier, more fulfilling lives. And so that is sort of why I'm here.

Victoria Volk
00:51:09 - 00:51:29
I love that. In the last paragraph of your book, I just want to read it because I absolutely loved it. It was one of my favorite parts of the book. Remember the mind does what you tell it to do. If you say, I choose to take care of myself because I'm worth it, your mind will be the best assistant you could hire.

Victoria Volk
00:51:29 - 00:51:39
It will help you flow through your day in with ease and less pain, suffering, and stress. Our perception is our reality. Make the choice to help others by first helping yourself.

Denise Schonwald
00:51:39 - 00:51:39
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:51:40 - 00:51:56
I think that beautifully wraps up our episode. But I do wanna ask you about one more thing because I found it interesting in what you also incorporate into your practice is Henry your dog.

Denise Schonwald
00:51:56 - 00:52:02
Yes. Yes. In fact, I keep snapping my fingers because he's growling a lot. 

Victoria Volk
00:52:02 - 00:52:03
He wants your attention, I suppose.

Denise Schonwald
00:52:03 - 00:52:12
He does. He does. Yes. I started my practice initially with a therapy dog by the name of Max, and he worked with me. He we had to put him down when he was 15.

Denise Schonwald
00:52:13 - 00:52:27
And you know, it's just such a wonderful part of the practice. And so Henry is now his successor and people just love to come in. And of course he loves his job and that has been, it just helps people feel more at peace.

Victoria Volk
00:52:28 - 00:52:35
Since you brought up Max, can you discuss a little bit briefly how you navigated that pet loss of

Denise Schonwald
00:52:35 - 00:52:50
That was, that was a tough one. He was the dog that we got when the children were little, and now the children are all, you know, out of the house and married and often. And then he worked with me for years years years. And so, you know, when he passed, it was like I had lost to Lynn. 

Victoria Volk
00:52:50 - 00:52:50
Mhmm.

Denise Schonwald
00:52:51 - 00:52:53
Talk about being in the waiting room.

Denise Schonwald
00:52:53 - 00:53:12
I mean, I didn't I had Henry at the time. He was a puppy, and I just didn't know how to move forward. And I had difficulty sort of sitting through a session and so forth. And and again, you know, he was a very important part of my life and and had to sort of work through that.

Victoria Volk
00:53:14 - 00:53:23
How did you work through that? Because I know there's a lot of people listening that probably have experienced pet loss. I know I've talked pet loss has come up a lot in recent months for me.

Denise Schonwald
00:53:23 - 00:53:56
And there are times where I still struggle. I have this little picture that I kiss before I go to sleep every night and so forth. And I just, you know, he was, he taught me a lot. In fact, my first book, Healing Your Body by Mastering Your Mind, the reason that I wrote that book was I dedicated it to him because I felt like he was such an important part of the practice and I wanted his leg you know, I wanted him to live on. And so I sat down and I wrote the book and dedicated to him, and that book has been very well received.

Denise Schonwald
00:53:56 - 00:53:58
So that was one of the ways that I honored him.

Victoria Volk
00:53:59 - 00:54:02
Well, and I'm sure it was very therapeutic for you to write it.

Denise Schonwald
00:54:02 - 00:54:15
Mhmm. Yeah. I wrote a little bit at the end about how we got him and how we named him and how he was very instrumental in our practice and so forth. And so we're a little bit about him, and people love that part of the book.

Victoria Volk
00:54:16 - 00:54:19
So how did you know that you were ready for another dog?

Denise Schonwald
00:54:19 - 00:54:45
Well, it's interesting. He was getting older and I wasn't sure that he was really wanted to practice with me anymore. We had a little dog door, which I do in my office, and he was starting to come in less and less. And I thought, you know, maybe I'll get another puppy and see if he can teach the puppy how to be a therapy dog. But by the time the Henry came in, he really was getting very sickly and he just really didn't live too much longer.

Denise Schonwald
00:54:46 - 00:55:02
And that was really tough too, having a puppy and then also a dog sort of toward the end of his life. But I just he was such a valuable part of not only my practice, but to me. You know, he was he was just a real special little guy.

Victoria Volk
00:55:03 - 00:55:07
Well, and I'm sure to your patients as well, the people that you worked with, your clients.

Denise Schonwald
00:55:07 - 00:55:18
Hundreds of emails and texts and cards after he passed. And and that just also reminded me of how important it is for us to connect to each other and support each other when we're going through grief.

Victoria Volk
00:55:19 - 00:55:38
In a recent episode too, I was saying to I mentioned weird pet loss come had come up and I said, you know, even if people listening can't, they're in a place where they can't have a pet or they don't feel comfortable getting a pet because it's maybe more care than what they can handle at the time or whatever. Just get a plant, get something to nurture,

Denise Schonwald
00:55:39 - 00:55:39
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:55:39 - 00:55:43
you know, give that, give yourself something to nurture. And even maybe that small thing can help you 

Denise Schonwald
00:55:43 - 00:55:43
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:55:43 - 00:55:44
create some purpose

Denise Schonwald
00:55:44 - 00:55:44
Yes.

Victoria Volk
00:55:45 - 00:55:52
in your day. You know, if you're feeling a little low, if you're

Denise Schonwald
00:55:52 - 00:55:52
Mhmm.

Victoria Volk
00:55:52 - 00:55:53
yeah.

Denise Schonwald
00:55:53 - 00:56:09
You're very fulfilling. In fact, if when people sort of look me up after this episode, if they'd like to email me, I'd be happy to send them a copy of one of my books. That's just a thank you for listening today. We've talked to us about some really great topics.

Victoria Volk
00:56:10 - 00:56:13
Yeah. And where can people find you to connect with you?

Denise Schonwald
00:56:14 - 00:56:33
My website is the best, deniseschonewall.com. In there, I have a little 10 question mental health quiz, which is also very fun to do, just to sort of see where you are. My books are listed. I have 3 currently. I'd be happy to send someone a copy of one of them if you email me.

Denise Schonwald
00:56:33 - 00:56:48
If you'd like an appointment, I'm licensed both in the state of Florida and nationally. So I see clients all over the United States. If somebody would just like to try a session and see how it works out, be more than happy. My calendar is online. 

Victoria Volk
00:56:48 - 00:56:50
Wonderful. I will put the link in the show notes, and

Denise Schonwald
00:56:50 - 00:56:50
That's great.

Victoria Volk
00:56:51 - 00:56:53
Thank you so much for everything that you shared today.

Denise Schonwald
00:56:53 - 00:56:55
You're welcome. I enjoyed it.

Victoria Volk
00:56:55 - 00:57:01
Great. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.