Lizzy Flavin | Never Fatherless

Lizzy and I share a similar loss experience. So much so, we both experienced the death of a grandmother, father, then uncle - in the same order.

We have a conversation about how those losses have shaped and shown up in her life, from her perspective of being in her early 20's. Also, being only ten years past the death of her father, she shares what's helped her throughout her youth.

The conversation also turns to spirituality and faith. Lizzy shares grief that she feels around the separateness that exists within faith communities. And, she shares how she's working to study and contribute to a greater conversation around the topic.

If you're a teen, into your 20s, or a parent of a teen/youth, I encourage you to listen to Lizzy's perspective of the loss of her father when she was 12, as well as the other losses she experienced before that and since that loss as well.

Mentions:

• Ep 26 with Victoria Shaw
• Grief Recovery 

Connect with Lizzy:

• LovingDiversityPodcast on IG
• NeverFatherless on IG

Need help?
Suicide Prevention Lifeline to chat or call the Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255) or reach out to Victoria
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If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, there are free resources available HERE.

If you'd like to share your grieving voice on the show or want to share your thoughts about an episode, please send an email to victoria@theunleashedheart.com.

Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.
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Transcript

Victoria Volk  00:00
Welcome to another episode of grieving voices. Today, my guest is Lizzy. And she reached out to me to be on the podcast, and we kind of have a similar story of loss. It was my grandmother, and my father and the uncle as well. And Lizzy shares that experience as well. So, she's going to speak to it from her perspective as a 20 something, right? Correct. We'll also dive into her faith and how that's been shaped by those losses. Thank you for being here.

Lizzy Flavin  00:39
Yes, thank you, Victoria, for having me here. Lizzy, I'm 21 years old, and I grew up in Arizona. Yeah. And I'm really excited to be here today and get to talk with you. 

Victoria Volk  00:48
When we spoke briefly, before we started to record you had mentioned that you lost your grandmother when you're seven. Was that your first significant loss?

Lizzy Flavin  00:57
Yes, it was. I think at that point in my life, I think maybe I'd lost a pet or something. I maybe been to a funeral for someone I didn't know. But it was the first time I really experienced someone that I knew and cared about being gone. And it was hard because I hadn't had a very close relationship with her. She lived far away to another state, but I didn't get to see her much while she I don't think I ever got to visit her actually while she was sick. And so that was really hard for me not really getting to say goodbye even though I was so young and didn't fully understand or have like the depth of relationship that I would have if she stayed alive later into my life. It was definitely hard to find out that she was gone without really having gotten to see her and say goodbye.

Victoria Volk  01:49
And then your your father was he, was, I know he passed away of cancer. Was it colon cancer?

Lizzy Flavin  01:57
Yes.

Victoria Volk  01:58
Same cancer as my dad had. I'm curious. How long had he known? Like when was he diagnosed?

Lizzy Flavin  02:05
Yeah, so my dad was diagnosed with colon cancer when I was 11. And he was sick for about 10 months. And at the beginning, at least from my perspective, it seemed like it was going to be a pretty quick surgery and then he was going to be done with it. It's kind of how my parents had explained it to me. And I think even then, that was their understanding, but there just continued to be complications. And he continued to, you know, get better and worse over time, and then yeah, it was about 10 months later that he passed away.

Victoria Volk  02:38
First of all, my heart goes out to you I know what that loss is like I don't know what it was like for you. So during that time, because I was a little bit younger my dad it was he was it was two years he had stage four when he was diagnosed and there was really nothing they could do but he lived for two more years and he passed away when I was eight so much of my childhood he was sick. What did you do you recall I mean and that's still quite a little bit fresh for you because again, you're 21 I'm much further out from my loss? What has that reef I hate to say the word journey because it's so overused but what has that been like for you?

Lizzy Flavin  03:20
Um, It's definitely been a long it's just changed so much over the years I think initially when my dad passed away it was very hard and intense but I also think I been in my family talks about this a lot that we and I think it's common with cancer that people kind of start grieving before the person's even died and so like that process of kind of started maybe a few weeks before for me when I found out there wasn't really anything what the doctors could do my dad was already in a pretty bad state where he couldn't really communicate with us much and so that Yeah, there was a season where everything's kind of blurry looking back honestly, but I do remember times even in that where I was confused about how okay I wasn't certain moments and I didn't know if that was right it felt like I should just always be upset but I think maybe the way we've been designed in some ways is to have that relief and have a little bit of being able to continue with life even when some time there's a lot of back and forth with that of like times that I was upset that I didn't think I should be in timezone I felt calmer than I thought I should be and especially as a child like I didn't fully know how to process that but my family definitely helped a lot. And then like as I've grown past that, obviously like it gets better but it never really goes away and so there's still times when it really hits me hard, and they don't know necessarily how to communicate that to other people. But I do spend a lot of time in prayer in those times when it just feels like, you know, I'm not necessarily dealing with the death itself anymore in the same way that I was. But just the fact that I've spent my entire teenage years any part of my adult years that I've been without a father, and sometimes that really doesn't feel fair. So, I think those are the moments that it hits me is when I see, oh, that's a moment when my dad would have been there, and he's not. And kind of, that's something I still have to work through from time to time. And I think it gets less and less frequent as time goes on but it still happens. 

Victoria Volk  05:45
Yeah, and it will continue. It's not that I hate to say that, but it just it changes, it just changes over time. You know, you get married, you won't be there. My family got me a beautiful little locket with my dad's picture in it. And that's what I wore for my jewelry. When I got married. It was incredibly special to me. So yeah, it just changes over time. You have kids, grandpa's not there. The seats always gone at the table. Right? It sounds like to me that communication is actually a really important tool used actually used in your family to navigate that loss and share how you were feeling. What is that? Correct? mean? That's the kind of sense I get that communication was really utilized during that?

Lizzy Flavin  06:34
Yeah, yes, I definitely agree with that. I think there were times, again, like, it's always a mixture of like, there were times when I didn't really feel like our family could communicate well and like be open with each other, just because of the different ways that we were all handling it. But there were also times when I was able to sit down with my mom or with my siblings, and just, yeah, share what we were feeling and know that other people were in the same boat. Even recently, like we've been able to have conversations, we try to celebrate or spend time together on certain anniversaries for my dad, like his birthday, the anniversary of the day he died, we'll just get together and remember him and spend time together and sometimes talk about like where we're at with it. And I think we probably talk less and less about I don't know, it's different every year. And the way it impacts all of us. It's like continues to grow and change. But I think being able to grieve together and deal with that loss together has been really helpful and really a blessing that I know not everyone has. 

Victoria Volk  07:43
Like I didn't. So yeah, that is wonderful. Because I think when we're able to communicate with how we're feeling honestly and openly that brings healing, and then you're healing as a unit as a family during that time to worry, even before your dad got sick. And even maybe when your grandmother passed, as your family always been very strong in faith.

Lizzy Flavin  08:07
Yes. So yeah, my we've always gone to church together as a family. I mean, we did growing up, of course now, I'm the youngest of four. So, all my siblings are adults, and they all kind of are still involved in different churches. But yeah, it's always been an important part of our lives. It was definitely something that we talked about around like my grandmother's death. And then something that, yeah, it's really important to my parents, and they always taught us to like read our Bibles and brought God into important conversations. And that was really impactful to me, especially like thinking of my dad's legacy, like continuing to walk in the faith that he helps me to establish

Victoria Volk  08:48
After he passed, how did that change? If at all?

Lizzy Flavin  08:51
It's interesting, I guess, to me, like, trying to think through that, because I think when my dad was sick, there was a lot of conversations among my family, and especially with our friends about like, prayer for healing, which was definitely, yeah, it just brought up a lot of questions for me, when, you know, he wasn't healed. And a lot of people we knew had, like so much confidence that he would be, but I remember, you know, my parents said, like, we trust God, or my mother actually talks about a conversation she had where someone asked her like, why don't you or I think she was telling us about someone else actually, now that I think about it, but someone had said, like, why aren't you trusting God to heal this person? And she's a non trusting guide, whether he heals this person or not, and I think like that was her attitude toward my dad's illness. And I've tried to take on that attitude to and it's definitely a challenge sometimes even looking back like I said, and sometimes I just asked God like, Why Why can't I have a dad in my life anymore? Like, this is really hard, but I do really believe Believe that he's worked through that. And they think like, after losing my dad, that was something specifically that I had to work through. But I also, I knew that I really needed God, and that I wasn't going to be able to deal with such a huge loss without my faith and without a relationship with God. Continuing and yeah, I really came to rely on God even more through my dad's illness. And then after he passed away, and just looking to God, like I said, I look to him for emotional support, as I'm dealing with grief. And I look to him for, you know, with my questions and with Yeah, sometimes things that I would have looked to my dad for, because he was such an important source of like, someone I could ask questions to, and someone I could turn to you and I got anxious, and, you know, as you know, feel protected by in different situations. And so I've transferred A lot of it over to God. And it's definitely different. Because God's not like a physical person in my life. But it he's also, yeah, I've just learned that, like God is ever present with me. And that's something my dad never could have promised. And I think that's really special. And it's really helped grow my faith, even though it's been difficult. 

Victoria Volk  11:18
I'm interested in hearing your side or your perspective, because when I was a kid, I believe in granted, I was eight, no, even less than 12, you probably maybe know differently. But when I was eight, my dad passed away, went to the funeral is in the ground. And I thought, that's what happens. When you die, you just go into the ground. And we did go to church, but granted those aids and big concepts, you can't really grass, necessarily at that age. But I guess how did that when I'm thinking about my experience, and how that loss really took us out of the church, like, I blamed God, right? Like, as you're taught, like, like you just said, and my mom had this firm belief, like, omega, he'll be fine. They'll do what they can. And when she realized that that's not the case that he will die. She was devastated and crushed, and really didn't know how to cope with that. So we fell out of the church. And that was the case for me until I was in my cell, I was probably till I was like, 23, my life was kind of a did a nosedive. Until back to, to life on faith again. So I can speak to that side of it, when you don't have when you lose face. When you come back to it. I love that growing up that was still a part of your grieving process that that was something that was made valuable and important, and a part of healing. Because I know for a lot of people, when someone they love dies, they want someone to blame, right? You want and who is the easiest of ln is God, you know, because you're supposed to heal people, you know. And so yeah, I struggled with a lot of those emotions, but I didn't have the language, I didn't have open communication like you did. And so I was a wonderful blessing that I just want to reflect back to you. Because I really think that whether you realize it now or not, that does and has an impact on the decisions that you make in your life and the choices you make. So, for anyone listening, it's it's there is no like linear path to losing your faith and finding your way back to it again. But often it's, you know, it's going to be take pen and scribble and doodle. And it's that's that's what it looks like. It's not a straight A to B point A to point B. So as you've been navigating this loss of your father, as it's changed over time, and as you've gotten older, I know you had mentioned to that your uncle had passed away the same way. Is that correct?

Lizzy Flavin  14:09
Yeah, it was very similar. He actually he had a different form of cancer, but it was, yeah, it was very much felt like going back into losing my father in so many ways. Because he was my dad's brother. He was definitely someone from my dad's family had stayed very close to her family. After losing my dad. He was an important part of my grief process and had been, you know, really there for our immediate family when that happened, and of course, was also a big loss for him. And then he actually had cancer for about six years, and then passed away in 2019. And so going to visit him and seeing him in hospice care like my dad had been, he was in so my uncle was in home and my father had been enough hospice facility, me passed away. Yeah, just seen him in such a similar state was really kind of brought me back to that earlier loss. And then I think having lost my father and really knowing deeply what that meant, and saying goodbye to him for the last time, was really impactful and really challenging knowing that, like, it was only a matter of time. But I think also, again, having had that loss before and the blessing of a family who I've helped me continue our relationship, the Lord and leaning into I, I felt more prepared for another loss like that. And really, and also knowing, I think, even clear as an adult, like where, and just believing that my uncle would be in heaven with God and with my, with my father, because they knew, you know, they're freaking God, that that's what Jesus would do for them. And that was really encouraging to me in a really deep wave. And when it hurt that, yeah, that they weren't just going into the ground. They had a continuation of life, it's just I didn't get to be a part of it for a while. Yeah, so I think definitely a challenge, but also something that I was prepared for. And I think in some ways, it's like seeing someone suffer through illness can be so hard. But I think I've been very blessed, in some ways, by the fact that I've, you know, none, none of the people in my family that I've lost have been sudden, like, I've gotten to kind of prepare myself and say goodbye, and yeah, and then know where they're going afterwards is really, really encouraging to me and has made such a big difference.

Victoria Volk  16:55
It's really just kind of bizarre how similar stories are, yeah, it's just really strange. My uncle wasn't in my life. After my dad passed, he was his brother as well. But when I found out he had brain cancer, I went in, I knocked on his hospital door, not knowing if he would want to even see me or recognize me even because it had been almost 30 years to the day that my dad had passed. And it turned out to be one of the most healing experiences for me to revisit that relationship, to open up my heart to Him again, and when he had been absent. And yeah, I felt a connection to my dad that I had not felt in the 30 years prior. So I'm interested in learning what your experience has been, you know, there's faith, and then there's spirituality. I don't necessarily view them exactly the same. I feel like for me, spirituality is almost more, there's almost a deeper knowing a deeper connection or a deeper feeling is what it's evolved for me. So, what role does spirituality play for you? And for your experience?

Lizzy Flavin  18:18
Yeah, that's interesting. I don't know.

Victoria Volk  18:20
Like, do you feel you know, when we talk about faith, we talk about God, right? spirituality is, it's no our guardian angels. It's like the people that like our guides, like people that are ever present. And all around us, you know, kind of watching over you, your guardian angels, things like that. I guess I it took me a long time to get to that probably only in the last five, six years, to be honest. It's like faith came first. And then my spirituality came, I guess, where are you sit with that?

Lizzy Flavin  18:58
Yeah, that's interesting. Um, I got a lot of conversations throughout my journey with loss about Yeah, like people sharing things like, oh, like your dad can see what's happening or like, like, they're still with you, in a way. I mean, I think I'm still at a point where that's kind of confusing to me, like, I don't know, and even thinking about guardian angels, like, I don't know, like, you know, whether that's a person who you've lost or someone different that God sent to help you like, I definitely think that's possible that that's a way that that exists, but it's not necessarily something that I've, I haven't quite gotten to the point you're at. It sounds like because i think i think in some ways, I'm just afraid of being wrong that I'm going to like comfort myself with some idea and then find out later like, no, that's just something that was in your head or like something sweet that people told you. Yeah, I guess. I don't know yet. Like whether yeah, it's just I guess, not something that I've really chosen to lean into yet. really focused on for myself.

Victoria Volk  20:02
You might be interested in listening to I'm trying to think what episode number it is. But it's with Victoria Shaw. And she is my podcast. And she was on recently actually, the episode just went live, I think three or four episodes back, but she is a medium. And she's also a licensed clinical therapist. But she's a medium. And we talk a lot about like, just this, really tapping into our, our intuition and our inner knowing. And, but how it's, it's, it's deeper than that it's this spiritual guidance. So you might be interested in that episode. Again, like I said, like this is not something that I really leaned into myself until maybe five or six years ago. And it really wasn't until that experience with my uncle, that just really had a profound experience in it for me when it comes to feeling a connection. Feeling that connection to my dad that I had not ever felt, you know. And it was almost like, there's a thing to like, when I found out he had brain cancer, I could have easily just been like, isn't been in my life for 30 years, why would I go see him? Why would I want to talk to him, right? But I felt a pull. Like I felt like I had to go see him. Like it was something I had to do. Call it synchronicity, call it serendipity call it spiritual guidance. But when I went there within 10 minutes, my cousin who I hadn't even remembered meeting before, from Massachusetts, walked through the door. And so did his daughter, who I had not seen either since I was a kid. And so it was like this almost immediate reunion. And it was amazing. It was an amazing experience. So anyway, it's something to maybe just open your heart to and see where where you're led.

Lizzy Flavin  21:57
Yeah, if I can add something that came to mind as you were sharing? 

Victoria Volk  22:01
Yeah

Lizzy Flavin  22:02
I do think well, like the right time to say, I think the closest I've come to that, that sort of experience and those things you're describing it I would describe my experience with Yeah, sense of like some spiritual guidance and some presence with me would be, I would describe it as like the Holy Spirit's work, being a Christian and like believing that God is like three persons and one of them is with us as especially like with believers as this spirit inside of us. And I think I've definitely received some comfort through that. And some guidance. I think the Holy Spirit has helped me come to like some of the conclusions I have in the piece that I have in regards to death guards to like people I love. And so yeah, I know, that's not quite the same as what you're describing. But I think there is some some, like spiritual guidance and some like spiritual presence. It's so something so beyond the physical that's really present with me. And again, even that is something that I want to be I don't feel like I lean on the Holy Spirit, or, like, I want to grow in that even Yeah, so that's, that's what came to mind anyway. 

Victoria Volk  23:20
No, I and I totally, I, I resonate with that, too. I do. I think for me, it was like, I think to like our while grief for me like, but he pretty much put a veil over my inner knowing, like I I don't know, I'm asking, I'm actually interested in learning to from you. Do you feel like you've grown in a better understanding of who you are and of yourself through this? Or do you feel like you've you're almost like moving further away from yourself, if that makes sense?

Lizzy Flavin  23:55
Yeah, that does make sense. I think the I think there's probably some of each, there's definitely been times and I feel kind of detached. And because i think i think grief impacts us so heavily that there's times when we don't feel like ourselves. And so that's been a part of it. But I also i do think overall I have really gotten to know myself better through this and part of it is a certain level of independence that comes when you lose someone that integral to your life. You know, since my dad passed away, I can't just go to him with my questions and assume that he's right anymore. I have two processes myself, and I definitely like my mom helps me work through things and other people in my life. But I I think I've become a little more independent in the way that I think and the way that I make decisions through not having that person who in my life was really probably my main source of guidance and stability even in some ways and so I've really learned more what I think and what I believe and also grow And like, Okay, how do I take care of myself and like, walk through like these difficult seasons? And like walk through not having these people in my life? I think, yeah, it's all been a journey of getting to know myself and getting to kind of work with myself in ways that I haven't had to before with each loss that's come,

Victoria Volk  25:22
Has anything else helped you along the way? Other like, has it just been your faith that you've leaned on? I don't want to say just your faith, because that's, I mean, it's huge. But aside from faith, in your prayer life in your family, did you go to counseling? Or were you offered counseling or, you know, any other healing modalities that you've found helpful? Or that were a priority? in your life?

Lizzy Flavin  25:51
Initially, after my dad passed away, counseling or like support groups weren't really, I think, on my family's radar. So, we did have a lot of family that supported us, but it was definitely Yeah, it was, you know, they weren't, we didn't have like professionals really helping us work through it until I think about a year or two after my dad died, we joined a grief support group through Hospice of the valley. So me and my mom and sister, were part of that. And that was so helpful to me to just go to a group once a week and talk with people who had had similar losses, my sister and I were in like a team group. And so it was a lot of people our age who had lost parents, or other family members, close friends. And it was just so helpful to talk with people who understood and who had similar experiences and hear about bears and talk about ours. And just know like, even if we weren't directly talking about our grief, like these are people who understood and didn't feel like they had to walk on eggshells around us, but also didn't, you know, weren't going to be insensitive to our grief either. And then also our leaders who helped us walk through exercises to kind of process I agree, I think about different ways to heal and still remember to that was really helpful. And then later on, think I was about 14, when I started going to counseling, not specifically for grief, I was dealing with a lot of anxiety at the time and some different issues. And so, I walked into that my first experience with counseling was kind of difficult, I didn't feel like I felt like it was just a lot of like work. And I didn't know if it was really helping me. And then my next counselor was really helpful in processing, the other things I was dealing with, but also the loss of my father and how that was impacting me. Yeah, so those are some different tools that I really, really impacted me, I think finding a counselor or therapist who can really help you is so such a blessing and so incredible and helpful.

Victoria Volk  27:56
What did grief look like? on you, as a teenager? Like if someone would have looked at you could they have seen that you were a griever? Like, what, what how did it manifest in your life at that age?

Lizzy Flavin  28:09
As a teenager, there was yeah, I don't know, how many people knew I started blogging at some point in my teen years, actually, about like grief and living without a father. And that was something that helped me kind of express what I was feeling and kind of worked as, like a public journal. For me, it wasn't something a lot of people read. But it definitely was a way that I expressed my grief and, you know, post on social media, I think Or another way that I kind of express my grief and just let people know, because I think one of the hardest things for me, especially as a teen was like having to tell people because I was always nervous about their reactions, whether like it would just make them uncomfortable, or whether they'd be overly sympathetic or not sympathetic enough. And so I think like getting it out on social media and being like, like, no, this I don't have to tell you in person, but also getting to share like what he had meant to me. I don't really know if someone you know, could have looked at me and seen like grief, just in everyday life. But I think there were situations coming up to like all the time where we I know where the question would come up, or where yeah, just different things. What impacted me in a unique way because of my grief. And there's always this question of like, do I invite people into this with me and like, share this or do I let people have very experienced and try to kind of hold back and deal with this on my own and so sometimes I would, I turn to my family with that and sometimes it was literally just me kind of taking some time aside to be like, Okay, this, you know, whether it's Father's Day or a conversation I have with a roommate about their father or their experience with loss, something that kind of brings back something that's like So much bigger than where the conversation already was. And I have to either bring that up and face whatever reaction people might have. Or either like bottle that in or step aside and process it on my own. 

Victoria Volk  30:15
I've learned there are two types of people in life, either internal processors or external processors, nexternal processors, they need to talk it out, they need to talk, talk, talk. And that's where talk therapy can really help someone who's an external processor, it's like they have their awareness and their insights, as they're talking. They need to talk in order to get those, feel those and have that awareness. But then there's internal processors, and I'm guessing that you're an internal processor like me, where we kind of need to go inside ourselves and be alone with our thoughts, the process and just the fact that you started with a blog, I'd actually journaled that's when I really got into journaling is when I was like, when I was a kid. And I've been journaling ever since. But I grew up in the age of dial up internet. We didn't have there wasn't social media, there wasn't really blogs. I didn't even have internet at home. So you know, it was like at school, very different time that I grew up in. And so I think that's a huge benefit to someone growing up today, children that name who's a parent today actually have this huge broad network available to them, which can be good. And it can be bad, because in my line of work as a group recovery specialist, I want to share this with you too, because you said you know, you don't know who necessarily to share it with is we don't want to share with just anybody, right? Because they can say hurtful and harmful things that actually make us pull back and isolate even more, because we don't feel safe to share. And so, we want to look for someone who really doesn't have any skin in our game. No, I know your family's a huge connection for you. And that's, that's great. But sometimes the relationship is no, not sometimes always. You can have like you and your siblings, your mom, you all experienced the same loss. But your experiences very differently. Your experience is very different, because your relationship is very different. And that was my experience, too. I was the youngest, my siblings were five and nine years older. So, our experiences were very different. So, you can have the same loss and very different experiences within a family unit. So, they might not be necessarily the best people to share with because they are perspective of that person might be very different from yours, because their experience was different. And so that comes to friends and everything, like someone that doesn't have any skin in your game who you feel safe sharing, and someone who is safe, who has a heart with yours, like we say in grief recovery is someone who's not going to criticize, analyze, or judge. And so someone who really can just your heart with yours, just listen. Because that's all people really need to do. Just listen. And your story matters, your experience matters. And that's why I started this podcast because whether you're 21 or 41, you've had the same type of loss, our experiences are very different. And your perspective that you bring to my listeners matters. Because there might be some 21-year-old, 20 year old, a 15 year old who's listening to you and hearing your story. And they resonate more with you because you're closer to their age, I very much remember what 21 felt like I was lost, I was absolutely lost. My grief had me lost for decades. But it doesn't have to be that way. We all but we all find our way. In our own time. Now, I'm to a place of a goddess. But then we might have another loss that just opens up that can of worms again. You know and for your uncle. That's what that's what that loss did my uncle, same thing. It's like that's when I realized I wasn't okay. Like I still haven't processed a lot. From all those other losses I had before I still had a lot of work to do. And that's what that loss made me realize I'm not okay. And that's what led me to grief recovery. And so, it's an ongoing process. You're going to have more losses in your life, that's a guaranteed and because grief is cumulative, and it's cumulatively negative. It just all stacks up, but so does the healing. The things that we participate in that help us to heal those wounds. Not to, and aid them not to like, to sugarcoat what's going on. It's being honest with ourselves. So we're really feeling. I think that's, I think we're out of integrity the most when people ask, you know, how are you feeling, I'm fine, and you're not fine. And you know, you're not fine. Like you're out of integrity with yourself. When you're out of integrity with yourself, that doesn't feel good. And so it's this ongoing suffering that we caused ourselves just by not being honest with how we really feel. And it's not being apologetic about it, like you don't have to be sorry that you feel bad. Like, if a situation is too much, it's walking away gracefully. And saying, I need this time for myself, I need to, we have, you'll have instances that the rest of your life like that, with age comes wisdom. That's all I can tell you. Things change, life changes, reach changes. Grief is grief, it just looks different over time, as time just passes, it doesn't do it. Time doesn't heal, it just passes. So, what is grief taught you so far?

Lizzy Flavin  36:06
I think we've kind of already touched on a lot of the things I was thinking about with what it's taught me. But I think it's this interesting mix of like independence and dependence that I've kind of learned through the process of like, I had a conversation with someone a few years ago, who had been through a similar loss. And I he said, like, I think everything that you missed from someone you've lost is something you have to especially like with losing a parent is something you have to like learn to do yourself and like be more independent. And I think in some ways, that's true. But also, I think we really do need other people and other support to help us with those things. And times, because yeah, I just don't think I could continue, or at least like be in the place I'm in, which is, I'm really blessed to be in without the support I've had from others, whether it's, you know, my mom still being one, like stable parent figure in my life, or my brothers kind of stepping in and providing some of that, like sense of safety in certain situations, or helping me seven people throughout my family helping me financially, and to be able to go to college and have the resources I need to be the student that I want to be I really, like I've learned that there's a lot that I can do on my own. And that i i do have the strength to walk through so much grief. And that's but that's all with some level of support. Like I can guess I guess, yeah, it's taught me that, that I need people and also that I am strong as an individual. But then I like, I don't know, if that makes sense. 

Victoria Volk  37:55
Because yeah, it's like you're strong as an end of it. You don't have to be strong for everybody and yourself, you can still like it's not weak to ask for help. And that's what I'm glad you brought that up, because that's a good point to bring across, and how, if someone were to give advice or counsel like that, who has not really dug into their own grief, that's where they can say something that could really send someone else into deep isolation. Because if you were to take that to heart, right, like, you're just gonna have to do this on your own, like, you're gonna have to learn all this stuff on your own, and you really internalize that you would have a really difficult time asking for help you think, well, I guess I'm just on my own. I guess this is how life is, this is what it's like. Because that person is going to give you advice and their perspective based on their personal experience, right. So, if they have not had the support in their life, if they had not felt like they ask for the support in their life, that's the perspective they're bringing to your conversation in what you share. And that's why I say it's really important to choose wisely, who you communicate with your grief about. So, thank you for bringing that up. And what has led because you have a podcast, it's called loving diversity podcast, and I was kind of I was poking around a little bit and it's about inclusivity that word, inclusiveness? I think so. inclusiveness of, of faith has these experiences of grief and loss is that what shaped you into this mission or this passion for starting this podcast? And tell me a little bit about it?

Lizzy Flavin  39:42
Yeah, so I was actually inspired to well, I guess, going back even farther, and I think for a long time, I've been very aware of kind of and just like curious about honestly, the differences, just how the church seems to be kind of divided up into, you know, we have like, and it's not, it's not that anyone's necessarily labeling themselves this way or doing this intentionally necessarily, but we tend to have kind of like, you know, churches that are, for a certain are tend to be filled with a certain demographic, racially or culturally or like economic status wise. And they that's kind of how we get even as Christians within Christianity, we tend to gather based on other things that we have in common. And as I've read scripture and studied church history, I've noticed like that's not how the church started, like the church churches, and like, the house churches that started in the first century, really broke a lot of the barriers that the rest of culture had around socio economic status, and race, and gender, and age and all those things. Like the church was a place that broke that in a unique way, early on, and now I feel like there's so much division in the church, whether it's based on different doctrines, or especially Yeah, like socioeconomic status, or race, or just preferences in worship, because that's something that's like been on my mind for a long time. And there's some grief in that of like, why is the church to say like, why can't we all be one like, group of Christians like God seems to have intended us to be and then in March of last year, with all the dots when I really became aware of issues with racism in America, and really allowed myself to start to process that and see like, Okay, how can like, first of all starting to understand the reality of the situation and grieve the losses that were happening in that time just for this if people you know, not people I knew, and then think about, you know, what's my part in this? And how can I help to address this and like, help people respect one another and build a better culture, I really started thinking about the church again, quote from Martin Luther King, Jr. Where he said, essentially, that the church is one of them that are the most segregated are 11 o'clock on a Sunday morning, I think is what he said was the most segregated time in America. And that had really struck me hard. And anyway, as I was processing, I was thinking, Okay, how can I address this, like the church’s issues with division, and I started thinking about a podcast because I was like, I want to have conversations with other people. I don't want to just talk about from my perspective, because that's not the point. And I don't even know that much. But what if I could welcome other people in to share their stories into to speak to their own experience, and to speak to what they've learned and share their experiences, feeling included from certain are included or excluded from certain church communities? And how could leadership or people around them have avoided that decision and help them feel like a part of something and like they were welcome, just as a part of God's family rather than having to fit a certain pick fit into a certain category in order to be part of that community?

Victoria Volk  43:23
I love that. I love that idea. What are you studying in college? 

Lizzy Flavin  43:27
Biblical studies

Victoria Volk  43:29
Awesome. Okay, well, that, yeah, that follow that passion, wherever it takes you that interest, that curiosity, curiosity is a big thing in life. And I think we don't ever lose that. That's something that we kind of just tend to put on the back burner is what makes me curious. Follow that. Follow it. I love that idea. If people want to reach out to you, and they want to learn more, how can they find you?

Lizzy Flavin  43:58
So, I'm on Instagram, you can find me at loving diversity podcast. I also, I don't use this account as frequently as I used to. But my blog from my grief experience that I was using in high school is never fatherless. And I also have an Instagram account for that. So, if you're interested in seeing some resources, it may become more active again. But if you want to read more about my story that's there. And you can feel free to message me through either of those accounts.

Victoria Volk  44:29
Thank you so much for sharing your story, which deeply resonates with me, and I will stay connected with thank you for being here.

Lizzy Flavin  44:37
Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's been great having this conversation. 

Victoria Volk  44:41
Thank you for listening. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.