Sandi Derby | Child Satanic Sexual Abuse, Meth Addiction, and Miracles

Sandi Derby, a fellow Advanced Grief Recovery Specialist, and Life Coach, shares her life's traumatic story that led her to do the work she does today.

As a child, Sandi was sexually abused by her father, followed by sexual, satanic/ritualistic abuse at her uncle's hands (a pastor) and his friend (also a pastor).

In adulthood, she became a functioning meth addict (by outside appearances)  for 3 1/2 years until a pivotal, life-changing moment woke her up, and her transformational journey began.

Sandi didn't say this, but I think if you listen to her story, you may agree that how she's been able to turn her life around is a miracle. And, what she did say, was that she heard God speaking to her.

Growing up in an anti-God home to finding faith, God, and a spiritual connection has been the miracle in Sandi's life.

Life is mysterious, and so is this greater force, whatever you choose to call it: God, Universe, Spirit, etc., that work through us and with us. We are the co-creators of our lives, and Sandi shares what that journey has been like for her.

"Your past is your present until it's healed."

Resources:

• Grief Recovery Institute
• The Grief Recovery Handbook
•  Free Ebooks for Grief Support

Connect with Sandi:

• Website
• Instagram
• Facebook

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If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, there are free resources available HERE.

If you'd like to share your grieving voice on the show or want to share your thoughts about an episode, please send an email to victoria@theunleashedheart.com.

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Transcript

Victoria Volk  00:00
Welcome to another episode of grieving voices. I'm so excited for today's guest Sandi Derby. She has played a big role in my life in my grief recovery, healing, and has been my heart with yours many times. And so I'm very pleased to bring her to the podcast and give her a chance to share her story because as grief recovery specialists, I think every single one of us, our work is based on our story to like we come to this because of our story. And Sandy is an advanced grief recovery specialist and trainer and professional development coach. She's actually one of the most amazing people at the grief recovery Institute. And I'm so happy you're here, Sandi, welcome.

Sandi Derby  00:53
Thank you so much. Well, it's an honor to be here. I mean, I feel like I've gotten to see you on your journey. And then here you are bringing this to so many people that need to hear it, and you have an amazing story. So, it's an honor. Thank you.

Victoria Volk  01:07
Thank you. Thank you. So, what brought you to grief recovery?

Sandi Derby  01:12
Initially, what brought me to grief recovery is you know, had grown up in this home. With a lot of abuse. My story has a lot of abuses. It was physical, verbal, and sexual abuse for the majority of my childhood. And you know, the other ingredient in my home was denial, there was a lot of bad things happening. But then all the adults around me were acting as if everything was fine and kind of keeping up this image. And I had taken that and really gone into my life, put the blinders on and just heaped on a lot more a lot more pain, a lot more brokenness. There was alcohol, there was drugs, I was a meth addict for three and a half years. And then I walked away, you know, I walked away from meth, I wasn't using meth anymore, but my heart was still broken. And to be quite honest, I would have never thought that I would have been someone that needed grief recovery, because I associated the word grief with death. And so it was because somebody who heard my story said, Oh, my gosh, you need to do grief recovery. And I thought, no grief recovery isn't going to help me. But they kept insisting that I do it. And so what I did is I went and I got the book, and I was just going to kind of go through it on my own. And they said, either you get in the group, or I'm going to make the call for you, you need to do this. And it was kind of that gentle, assertive push. And so, I did, I went thinking one, I'm too broken for grief recovery, you know, because even though I wasn't using meth anymore, my life was definitely not present or full, you know, I was anxious, I was depressed, I had a hard time getting up out of bed in the morning, there was just so much pain still inside my heart. And I had by that time I'd been in therapy at for maybe two, two and a half years. And it had been very helpful. But it had not addressed the deep pain that I carried. And I didn't realize that the things that had happened to me as a child, were actually losses to be grieved, you know, I had lost my innocence. I had lost safety and trust and purity, I'd lost identity and love and connection, all of the building blocks that a child really, really needs at the hands of people that should have protected me and should have, you know, watched over me. And so when I did grief recovery, the whole way through, I kept thinking, no, this isn't gonna help. I mean, I did it, I did the work, I engaged with the process, but I really didn't think it would be effective. And it wasn't until I got to the final exercise toward the end, that it literally felt like boulders just lifted off my shoulders. And I remember looking at the specialist who was leading at the time, and I said, oh my gosh, it worked. And she was like, well, of course it worked. And I was like, you don't understand. I didn't think this was going to help me. You know and so Truthfully, I engage I kept engaging with the tools and I went from someone who was very out of the moment I used to describe myself as I watched my life on a movie screen. That's That's how you know unpleasant I was. As I continued to use the tools, I became very present very emotionally aware for the first time in my life. So it was really people that understood grief recovery that kind of brought me there but the losses were you know, I mean I it's not like I haven't lost people along the way I have had death experiences, but the major losses for me were the abuses and the neglect of my childhood.

Victoria Volk  04:43
It's just for a backstory for those listening. Sandy was my heart with yours at my certification and who I shared my who helped me lift my boulders and and when I heard Your story when you shared with me because we were partners, I, oh, I, I cried with you. And I just that moment was so powerful for me to be there with you and to have that experience and just like you said, was going in there, like, it's not going to help me it's this isn't like, skeptical, right? I went in skeptical. Yeah. And it is it's like this, I just I too felt like this instant relief that I'd never experienced. And similarly, when you mentioned watching your life, like on a movie screen, do you feel like with abuse, particularly with child abuse and childhood, there's almost like this dis association with our bodies, that happens, and that we kind of just like, that creates that movie screen type feeling of our lives?

Sandi Derby  05:52
Absolutely. I think that you know, as a child were so ill equipped, you know, to begin to understand abuse, and the pain and the fear, and the terror, that go with abuse are often such an overload. For a child's system, heart, mind, soul and body, that the only way to really cope with it is to leave the body, you know, I can't, I can't say that I had those thoughts. As a child, I'm going to leave my body. But I it definitely happened, because it was really the only way to survive. You know, and in my story, there were abuses that happened very young. And then there was, you know, rape, like at the hands of my father. But then I had religious abuses happen at the hands of an uncle and a pastor. So I had, you know, it was this over and over and over again, all these different types of abuses that had happened, and there was no one to help me to navigate any of the things that were happening. And so leaving my body was the only way to survive, because leaving my body also meant that I had didn't have to be connected to the pain and the terror, it also meant I didn't have to be connected to the memories. But what that produced in my life was that I wasn't connected to my life. I was never in my skin, because I stayed disassociated. Even the therapy that I did, which again, it was helpful, I'm really big on any of the healing modalities, what it did not address with the emotional pain, the unresolved grief that I was carrying inside, because of everything that was lost. And I think if I had not discovered grief recovery, I would be in a very different place. Because grieving those experiences helped them to not just be this trauma that happened to me, but it helped it to be something that I could actually walk through emotionally and get on the other side and get in my body. You know, and that was I mean, that was a miracle for me. I never imagined that I could experience life present and in my body. But yeah, to your point that dissociation is very key, especially for children.

Victoria Volk  08:08
I think it's just miraculous that you are sitting where you're sitting, that we're having this conversation. I mean, I I one thing I ponder and I think about often is how so many terrible things can happen to some people, and one person may come out of it. And another it just completely puts them in the ground. Like physically, like actually puts them in the ground like they they just can't take it right. So how did you get from being the meth addict? Then? to like, what was there a defining moment for you that got you to therapy that led to because I think everything in life kind of leads to the next thing? What was the thing that changed for you? At that time?

Sandi Derby  08:55
Yeah, for me, it was, there was a I think a couple of things. I mean, I lived a lot of my life not being aware of what had happened to me, you know, I had taken on this idea, this denial idea. I have a nice family, everything was fine. My dad was just a little bit hard on me. That's my life. You know, I loved it very much at the surface. But of course, in order to keep all of that pain, and all of those things at bay, and all of the dark thoughts and all the things that would come, it was I really engaged in a lot of risky behaviors, and then that led into to meth and things like that. But a couple of things happened. One is I came into awareness of what had happened to me, I actually, my defining moment was I had an ex-ex boyfriend that tried to kill me. And it was it happened in Hollywood; it was this big thing. And I mean, there were hell helicopters like police, helicopters and police and it was this huge, huge thing. And by then I was already a meth addict. And there became this moment When I asked a question, and I was asking myself this question, like, wait a minute, I'm on drugs, I chose a man who tried to kill me. And I don't remember a lot of my childhood, something's wrong. So, there was a defining moment there, like something is wrong. And that that attack Actually, my ex attacking me a few months later, is when I started to connect with some of the memory from my childhood, which I found out later was textbook a lot of times it takes a traumatic event to start to bring those memories to the surface. And that's what happened. And when it did surface, it wasn't like this huge shock. It was kind of like, oh, yeah, I've always known that. I just haven't wanted to look at that memory. The other defining moment for me is when I had Child Protective Services called, I had Child Protective Services called on my father, because I was trying to protect my niece. And that was another big moment, it was kind of like that family secret that I had been carrying all that time was out in the open, and I had the help of a therapist, by the way, I was still on meth, when I made that call, and when that happened, and then the investigation ensued. So, once it was out, and once I wasn't carrying the family secret anymore, that is when I was able to get off of meth. And my story's a little bit different. I think a lot of people you know, would need to go to rehab and things like that. For me, it was you know, I kind of had a moment with with God and then after that, I was going to bed one night, and you know, I'd given money to my my friend who was my friend who was my drug dealer, and I had given him money, and he hadn't returned with my drugs and it was like a couple days later, and I got angry and I called and I left a message for him and said, Give me my money back. You know, most drug dealers don't return money, but that's I was mad. And that night when I was going to bed, I just had this thought and the thought was, you know what, if he gives me my money back, it's time to quit. And the next thought was, if he brings me drugs, I'm going to keep going it was not a big epiphany. It was like a little glimmer and the next morning when I woke up, I went down and went down the hallway and there was this envelope under the door and when I opened it, it was cashed so he gave me my money back and so that was the last time I used but the catalyst really for me not using anymore was that I the secret was out I wasn't carrying it anymore. And so I walked away from meth and and that was a huge moment that was in October of 2005 you know, and when people see me today, they never look at me and think oh, a meth addict you know, I don't look like I used meth but I was actually a hardcore I was an everyday user for three and a half years. So and that was a big moment and a huge and miraculous It was also a grieving experience because math was how I got through the day math was how I kept the pain at bay. And then you know, my appearance had altered drastically from that, so it was like trying to come out of all of that. In all honesty, though, if I had stopped there, if my journey had stopped there with, I'm not using anymore, I still wouldn't be here. Because there was so much pain still in my heart. It was a miracle that I wasn't using, but the use was more symptomatic of the things that were buried inside of me. And so dealing with the things buried inside was the bigger piece. And I will say the for me and I find this with people is that you know we're taught you know the toy, we're taught these things in our culture, we're taught a couple of things we're taught you’ve gone through a lot of pain. And once once that's happened, you're just always going to live this kind of less than life. You're all you know you're aware of it and you're always going to just be in this place of living this life that is subpar. Or the other the other thing is don't look at that just that's in the past go be happy because the pain will be too much so just go be happy. And quite honestly, both of those lies because they are lies in our culture are what stopped people from living the life they can live the truth of the matter is is that what makes the difference for somebody coming out of something like that or not, is realizing that you can walk through the pain if you have the right tools if you have the right people if you can you know you have you know that you can find safe community. Like you can walk through the pain you can and once you walk through the pain, there is another side I don't wake up anxious every day I don't wake up depressed every day. I'm a normal person I have my you know, I have my ups and downs and you know life experiences like anyone else, but I don't live a subpar life. I don't live a life that would look like I have been severely abused because I have been very, very severely abused. As a child. I have seen things that no child should ever see. And I have experienced things that no A child should ever experienced. But that's really the difference. It's like when people can step out of those lies, and realize that there is another side, they can do it, they can walk through it, that that makes the difference.

Victoria Volk  15:12
Thank you for sharing all of that. There's so much hope in this conversation. What are your thoughts on people who might say, I don't need to dig up the past? It's not necessary to dig up the past to relive the trauma to relive the experience in our minds or whatever to move on from it. What are your thoughts? When when you hear that because I hear that a lot.

Sandi Derby  15:40
Yeah, so there's this sign, it's in my in my lobby, and it says your past is your present until it's healed. See, the truth of the matter is, is that the things that are unhealed from the past, it's it's it becomes pervasive it, it filters into every area of our lives, it affects our relationship with people. It affects our romantic relationships, our friendships, it affects our vocation, it affects our ability to make money. For people that are believers, it deeply affects their relationship with God, it affects your ability to step into purpose and live your purpose. It affects everything. There's no getting around that. And so what I tell people when they because I hear that a lot, too, what was the point of digging up the past, and it's like, well, because it's affecting you every single day, you don't have to dig it up. Even though I wasn't looking at my past. It was with me every moment. It was filtering into everything that I did. I couldn't like you can't run from yourself. Wherever you go, there you are. We can't run from who we are, we can't run run from ourselves. And we're really not digging anything up. Because it's really not truly buried. It's there. And so that's what I that's what I share with people, because I find when people get that and they go, right. And then they actually deal with it, it's like, then it actually becomes the past. You know, I look at my past. And again, it's it's very intense. But I can look at my past, I can talk about it freely and openly. And I'm not on the floor. But I will tell you, I still look at my past. And yes, I'm sad for the little girl that went through that. I am not one of those people that looks at my past and goes, Oh, that made me who I am today. I look at it, like no child should ever go through the things that I went through. And I believe that for me and for anybody that sits in front of me. But it truly is the past. For me, it truly is something that doesn't come into every area of my life. I'm here, I'm present, I'm living on purpose, I'm excited, I'm passionate, I have a lot of joy. I have a lot of amazing things in my life. Because I do believe that recovery is totally possible. Now, it doesn't mean that I forgotten those things. It doesn't mean that those things were okay. And it doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for the people that did those things. It just means I don't have to carry those boulders with me anymore. If that makes sense.

Victoria Volk  18:17
I love that. I love that phrase that quote. When you spoke about how religion was used against you, and faith and things. How did you find your way? back to that then? Was it with that awareness of you know, this was put on me? It's not like how did you come to be curious about that again, and allow it into your life?

Sandi Derby  18:44
Yeah, well, I love that you're asking that I'm going to answer it from my perspective. And then from some of the people that I've worked with, so for me, the the actual home that I was raised in my nuclear family, there wasn't religion, as a matter of fact, there was it was anti it was, you know, we don't, we don't believe in that. We don't believe in God. Well, I don't even know if that was even spoken. But I definitely didn't have that. Now unfortunately for me, my very religious experience was the uncle that abused me. And so this uncle was a pastor, and also had a good friend who was a pastor, they were at the same church, and both of them abused me. And you know it, I don't mind talking about it, but it went to the satanic level. So, it was a tannic ritual abuse, which was, you know, a step beyond just being sexually abused, which is horrific enough in and of itself, but there were rituals done in the name of God. So, I had, I had a real double-edged sword in the sense that my experience of God and religion was done at the hands of what were supposed to be men of God, who were actually working for Satan and doing horrible, horrible things. So, I had this idea of God number one that he was extremely punitive. And mean and cruel, and not something that I would ever want to be a part of. And so what happened for me is that much later in my meth addiction, I actually had a vision like that came from God, that God gave me a vision. And that vision just helped me to understand that he was that there was a God and that he was real. And that's what kind of opened the door for me was just this kind of supernatural experience that I had. And then I ended up, I ended up on a plane next to to two pastors in an airplane. And that's what led me to start going to church. And so, the faith community, for me was extremely beneficial, because it was a lot of love. It was a lot of, you know, happy to see you a lot of like, being this person who was lonely, and not really in a family, because in my story, when I spoke up about the abuse, I was pretty much ostracized by my family, they were like, didn't happen, we don't believe you, you know, and so I kind of was really on this lonely, lonely journey. And so having a faith community of people that not only were happy to see me and kind of wrap their arms around me, but believed me and held belief space, for me, was really, really huge. And that started to repair some of the things about God that, you know, obviously, I held in my heart. But the other thing is that I also did, did some work around belief systems and realizing that a lot of my experiences growing up experientially had taught me things, not just about God, but about myself and about others, about my worth, and all of the foundational pieces that should have been so much different, right, I should have been taught this foundation of worse than and, and specialists. And instead, I felt like I was worthless, and garbage and all these kinds of things. And so I actually did work around that to believe something different. All of those things helped me, as well as just having some of my own supernatural experiences, you know, with Jesus and realizing that the abuse that was done to me, like the whole goal of the abuse was to separate me, you know, from from God, it was to separate me from Jesus. And unfortunately, kind of to your point, I work with a lot of people who have, you know, had these types of experiences. There are people they might not have the abuses that I had, maybe they weren't mechanically ritually abused by somebody claiming to be a Christian, but maybe they were I mean, I've definitely worked with that. Or they may be brought been brought up in these very staunch legalistic, hardcore religious systems where the Bible was weaponized against them, you know, the God being punitive was weaponized against them. And those are abuses too. And so, for those people, it's the same thing, when we can grieve those experiences, and grieve what was lost it a lot of times can open our hearts to the things that will actually help us. And so I find that with the people that I work with, also, and I don't ever approach anybody that I work with, with this idea of, Okay, we're gonna go through this so that you can be a faith, you know, so that you can go this route. It's like, no, no, no, I just want to hear your heart. I just want to be with you and what happened, and I just want to reflect back to you, kind of like, you know, what you and I got to do for each other, and the training and what we get to do for the people we work with, I want to reflect back to you the pain in my eyes. Because I'm, I'm hearing what it is that you experienced. And that's what I want to do with you. And wherever that person goes with that is up to them. But what I do find is that, religiously, the heart is one of the most neglected and assaulted components of our being. It is assaulted, it is neglected, it is seen as a deceitful thing it is seen as your emotion shouldn't lead you don't be emotional, we're black and white. And people grow up sometimes under so much religious pressure and pain. And then that pain is compounded because they're taught to just be grateful, and you're not supposed to feel those things, and you're not being spiritual, and you're not believing if you believe those things. And if you have depression, that's because there's something wrong with you. And you're not you're not seeing God, right? And they're like under rocks and boulders of all of this stuff. And what I find is, is that when the heart is actually met, and seen and heard, and validated, and gets the opportunity to grieve, that actually a lot of times for people helps them to see that maybe the God that they've been taught isn't really who God is. I have a good friend and one of the things that she talks about is that when she did grief recovery, she said I said saw this other side of God's heart that wasn't judgmental, that wasn't angry, that was compassionate, that had boundless measures of compassion and love. And now you and I both know victory that when we walk people through grief recovery, there's no religious aspect of grief recovery, we're not, you know, what we always say to people is we're not here to impose faith, and we're not here to interrupt faith, it will do neither. There's nothing in the process that will interrupt anyone space. And there's nothing in the process that will impose faith. But what is really beautiful about it, and I've never seen anything like it is it brings this soft, understanding, compassionate place to a person's heart. And because the heart is in religious circles, I've seen it as one of the most assaulted places within a person, it's a really, really beautiful thing when somebody's heart actually gets heard. And they actually get to realize that the heart is a beautiful thing. And our emotions are beautiful thing. And the pain that we've experienced, is that it's pain, it's going to be with us until it's grief. And when they get all of those pieces, that's what's helpful. And that's what was helpful for me too. And that's what opened my eyes to see that, okay, what happened to me was because people did really evil things, you know, and when I can grieve that I can actually be in my heart and be connected to my heart. And I actually hear God, way more than I ever have. Just because I'm so hard connected. It's the opposite. Oh, that makes sense.

Victoria Volk  26:37
100% 100% agree, I, I do feel like just doing the work on myself and tapping into my heart and working through all the gunk in there that it's helped me to really have honestly, like, a spiritual connection to God like more of a wholehearted connection, rather than it being based on any one any religion or faith or whatever it may be. I'm curious what you would say to this question, because I've heard this too. You know, sometimes people just aren't, they're not ready to go there with grief recovery, or they feel like or they have a very strong faith that can you know, you have a very strong faith. I feel like I'm very connected with God. I don't need this. Because I have God. I pray. And that's all I need. Have you have you encountered? What would you say to that?

Sandi Derby  27:40
I mean, I, I hear that often. Yeah, I've encountered that many, many times. And, again, I think if somebody has a strong faith, and they're praying, I think that's a beautiful thing. I think that's awesome. I agree. Praying is not grieving. They're two different things. And so, what I do say to that person is a couple of things. Number one, in the Scriptures, it talks about poor laboring, and it's this idea that we co labor with Christ, that there's a part in our sanctification process that we do. And there's a part that Jesus does. Grief recovery is about helping us it's about giving us the tools for our side of the street. It's, it helps us to engage in the coal labor process. It doesn't take Jesus's role. He has his role. But we do have a role, our role with God with Jesus, it's a relational role we are in relationship. We're co laboring together, we're being hands and feet. And in our inner process, which is a sanctification process of becoming more like Jesus. There are things that we do, it isn't that he comes and just takes it off. There are certain things that we do, and grief recovery helps us with our side of the street. Another way to look at it is we were created to grieve, by the way, like we were made by God to be able to grieve we're born being able to grieve. We're born grieving. You look at little kids, they're in the moment it is up and out, and then they're on to the next thing. They are emotional processing plants. We learn to be emotional storage units, we learn to store things inside and by the way, what people do need to understand is emoting meaning like, well, you know what, Sandy, but that's not true. Because you know what, there's times when I'm by myself and I'm praying, and I do cry, or there's times when I go in my room and I do cry, Oh, there's times when I'm driving in my car and I do get angry and I do feel feelings and all that kind of stuff. That's great. But emoting and grieving are two different things. We unlearn grieving. And so another way to look at it is imagine you're born and you got a little backpack and it's empty. And then things happen. You might get stolen, you move, a parent dies, or parents get divorced or grandparent dies or you get abused or things happen and guess what, when we're little we look to the people around us because they're the ones that They're supposed to teach us how to grieve. But by then the adults around us have learned to stuff and compartmentalize and not grieve. So what happens for us is that every time one of those things happen, either a rock, a pebble or a boulder goes in our back. You know, john James says, We're taught how to acquire things, we're not taught what to do when we lose them. And so over time, we end up with a pretty heavy backpack. It's full of rocks, and pebbles and boulders. Grief recovery method is the tool so that we can relearn how to get rocks, pebbles, and boulders out of our back, none of the religious practices will get rocks, pebbles, and boulders out of the backpack, because we were created by God to already grieve. And we were created to do that in community, with people grieving has to be done with people, at least one other person. And so because we live in a society where we don't come together and grieve, we are isolated, and alone in our pain. And in our experiences, we don't have the communal tools to be able to walk through the grieving process. And remember, grief can happen for multitudes and multitudes of things. And so grief recovery recovery method is specific to getting rocks out of the background. And I will tell you, I've, I've done lots and lots of trainings, I've trained lots of grief recovery specialists, and you know how to training not long ago, and there were people in the training that were, you know, very much believers and Christians, and, you know, prayerful and all those things. And that's awesome. I mean, great. And they had all the same questions that you were just talking about. And I kept going back to the rocks in the backpack, and there's a little diagram that I that I draw, her name is Sally, and she's got dots inside. Don't make me draw Sally again. And I kept going back to Sally, but I will tell you, because in the training, they walked through the grief recovery method, by the time they were through the method, every single one of them was in shock. I can't believe how much later I feel. And I can't believe how much different everybody in this room looks because they look lighter. Because the tools to get the rocks out of the backpack are found in grief recovery method, that's just the reality are there probably other tools out there, there may be I just haven't seen any of them yet. And so for somebody who is someone who is prayerful and all those kinds of things, like I said, I, I am too. I am a big prayer person, I believe in all of that stuff. And there's an inner healing even that Jesus has brought, to me that has been deeply profound. But when it comes to grieving, those things will not get those rocks out. And we have to remember, we're co laboring, we're not just sitting back and Jesus or God is just going to do it all. We have to engage in the process. And this process will give you the tools that you need for your side of the street. And like we talked about, when you get that right that gunk out of the heart, what happens is, is that your heart opens up. And now there's this deeper connection. You know, for people that are below that there's this deeper connection. And so I find that for a lot of people that's what happens and they don't realize, oh wow, with these tools, I actually go deeper in my faith, my prayer life changes and it gets deeper and more profound. So that question I think comes up a lot. I think it's a valid question to be honest, I think you know, when we're taught these certain things about about prayer, of course prayer is is amazing and of course it does it moves mountains roof recovery doesn't interrupt that at all. It's just it's a different lane. And if you don't address that lane, then guess what that lane filters into all the other lanes grief has an unresolved grief has a way of impacting every area including the spiritual area.

Victoria Volk  34:05
Yeah, I'm reminded of a quote I'm not sure how it goes exactly. Maybe this is it but pray and move your feet. Pray and move your feet so it's about taking action to not just sitting back praying but sitting back and waiting waiting for something to change within you waiting for someone else to you know waiting for him God whatever you believe in to take those boulders and pebbles and rocks out of your backpack for you. No one will do it for you, right?

Sandi Derby  34:40
No, it's like there's this one scripture and it says you know, and again you talking about action. It is an action scripture cuz it's like, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. It's a quick one people know it off the top of their head. But when you think of that first part Love the Lord your God with all your heart. How Do that. And how do you love with all your heart when your heart is all stopped up with pebbles and rocks and boulders? How do you do that? Bingo, that scripture is calling you to action. It's not saying God is going to come in and he's going to, he's going to get all that stuff out. So and then, you know, move you into loving, it's no, this is an action that we take, how do you live that out? Well, you need the right tools in order to be able to love wholeheartedly. There's another scripture that says, hope deferred makes the heart sick. But a longing fulfilled is the tree of life. And it's just this idea that, you know, when we have deferred hope, when our hearts are all stopped up with stuff, our hearts are sick, well, if your heart is sick, if your heart is holding all of these things, you've got to take action. In order to get better, it's no different than if I have a gash on my arm, I'm going to the doctor, if I break a leg, I'm going to the hospital, I need to take some kind of action, it's the same with the heart, it's, I think, for a lot of people a little bit less tangible, because I can see a broken leg or you know, blood gushing out of my arm. Sometimes a broken heart is a little bit harder to see visibly. But when you can think of the analogy of all those rocks and pebbles and boulders in your backpack, that that becomes a bit more tangible. And you go Okay, so I'm carrying this, it's really heavy. And these tools will lighten the load. And I can actually engage in something that will lighten the load, and it works every time. 

Victoria Volk  36:31
You know, speaking to grief that begins in childhood childhood trauma and things like that. Yesterday, I had this awareness that came to me I never really understood why when people say this, it makes just makes my skin crawl, it just irritates me. But when people say that children are resilient, it just always, just as always gotten to me and I could never really articulate why it bothered me so much. Until yesterday, I came across a post for someone talked about being self reliant, and how self reliance like if you want help go look to the end of your own arm. You you know you have you have the power in your own, at the end of your arms in your own hands, to help yourself, right. And it's about being self reliant. Like self reliance helps us to see that in a self reliant. So, what I thought back to was my childhood and how I, unlike probably you as well, if you have you, you grow up having to be self reliant, you have to be your own hero. And I think that's different than resiliency, but yet very much the same. And I think someone people would say, well, children, when people say that their children are resilient, they'll bounce back. It just occurred to me yesterday that the people who are saying this, like is it people who are on able to look at what that child has experienced, or look at that child's pain, without being able to really empathize. Because I think if you're looking at a child and what they're going through, regardless of what it is, that might be hard for them, it's easy to think, well, you're resilient, you'll bounce back, you're not going to address what it is that child is experiencing, you're not going to be able to put yourself in that child's shoes, because you're seeing it from the lens as an adult, in your experience. And if you have not addressed anything in your own heart, your grief, trauma, anything. How can you see that in the child? How can you empathize with them? You're going to say, children are resilient, and they bounce back. And it just occurred to me yesterday, why that irritates me so much. Because it's not about being resilient. It's about not being given the choice of having to be self reliant. I didn't have a choice. Yeah, I did not choose that. So the resilience comes from a lot of pain and suffering and having to be self reliant. And I think that's why they're so intertwined. And that's why it just really just grinds my gears. What are your thoughts on that?

Sandi Derby  39:27
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. I think that when people say that, because I work with the adults that have been through the things as a child, number one, I looked like a resilient child. I did, you wouldn't have known the things that were happening to me I learned to function in spite of all of it. That's not resiliency that's coping. And I'll tell you what, it comes out later. Children will meld into their environments and do what they have to do in order to try to get any little scrap of love that they can get because they're so dependent on the adults and caregivers. is around them. But it will come out later. number one. Number two, when you teach a child, like you're saying that idea of resiliency and self reliance, and and I love what you said about you know you didn't have a choice, you got to figure it out, you're teaching them to stuff mountains of pain that let me tell you it will affect them in relationships, it'll affect their health, it'll affect their well being and their career and all of those different things. And now they have no tools even as an adult, right? Because what we learned as a child is what we carry into adulthood, to be able to connect with people and actually get the things that we need in order to get better, because like I mentioned with grief, you can't do grief in self reliance, you have to actually be with people who are with you in your heart. And we have all these people that have learned to be self reliant. And guess what, nobody's healing. You nobody's healing. And yes, maybe you're living a life and maybe you've gotten your career really far. But guess what, everything else is falling apart. Because all you've been able to focus on is your career. Because that's how you've coped. We have so many people walking around today that are in coping, and they're coping and not living. Being self reliant. That's what it teaches us to do. It teaches us to cope instead of live. Think about how you and I are on this call right now. And we're so connected in our hearts are connected. And, you know, we could probably talk for hours, right? Because we're being with each other. And because we've done this work, and we have this heart connection, and it's really beautiful. And it's this amazing experience. But how many people go through life and they don't get to have this. They don't get to live and be present and connect. They're coping. And to your point, that's what we teach children. We teach them to cope, when they're born knowing how to grieve, and they're born knowing how to get things out. We teach them to live in coping, and that's what that does, I was a great cover, I was really great at it. But that did not mean that I was living in that I was present. And that's for so many people that I know, even if their life looks really good on the outside. We want to be living present people, we need other people, by the way to do that. We need other people in our breathing experience. And I'll say this, I know we're almost out of time. But that's why grief recovery method works a lot. Because it's not just that you're getting the tools. It's that you're either walking through it with one other person, or we're in a group setting, breaking into smaller groups. And you're getting that community validating, compassionate experience that lets your heart come out to heal. Because your heart won't heal unless it feel safe. And when you teach people to be with and say that kids are resilient and the whole self reliant thing, it's not healthy. It's not healthy. It's not actually how we're created to live.

Victoria Volk  42:53
Yeah, and I have a whole podcast blog post social post, I'm going all over the place with that message, because it came to me so clear yesterday and hit me like a thunderbolt. And yeah, it's something I really want to speak to for children. Because hurting children become hurting adults. There's a lot of hurting inner children out there right now. Especially with COVID, everything mounting up. 

Sandi Derby  43:22
And then what they teach other children is also how to be cope. 

Victoria Volk  43:28
Yep, that generational learning continue, the loop continues. 

Sandi Derby  43:32
Yes, yes, definitely. 

Victoria Volk  43:36
I wished we had more time. We do part two, at some day. I would love that.

Sandi Derby  43:46
Yes, absolutely. That'd be great.

Victoria Volk  43:47
To speak to another aspect of grief. I think. I would love that. Where can people find you?

Sandi Derby  43:55
You can go to sandiderby.com, and there's contact info. Um, there's all kinds of stuff.

Victoria Volk  44:08
All of Sandi's amazingness right there for you. Sandi, you hold a special place in my heart, you always will. I'm so glad our paths connected in March 2019. It's a remarkable journey for me, and I'm so glad to have been able to share it with you. So, thank you for being on this podcast today, and for sharing your story. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.