Grieving Voices

Lindsay Joy Taylor: A Mother-Connection Lost in Childhood

October 27, 2020 Victoria V / Lindsay Joy Taylor Season 1 Episode 18
Grieving Voices
Lindsay Joy Taylor: A Mother-Connection Lost in Childhood
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Show Notes Transcript

Lindsay's mother was murdered when she was a toddler. Being the youngest of three children, she speaks to her experience of what it was like growing up without her mom, and how she found a way to honor her mother's memory.

Lindsay found the joy in her middle name again, with the birth of her business, The Joyful Jewelry Box, and as a Grief Advocate.

Be a fly on the wall of a conversation that covers family grief, the impact child loss had on Lindsay, and how she's learned to move forward throughout her life.

Childhood grief is a unique club. When you grow up with sorrow, it becomes familiar - so much so, you're not sure what life is like without it. Lindsay and I share that truth.  Lindsay shares how her experience growing up with grief has shaped the decisions she's made throughout her life.

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Victoria Volk  0:00  
Welcome to grieving voices. Today I'm introducing Lindsay Joy Taylor on the podcast. And she is the grief advocate and owner of the joyful jewelry box. Thank you so much for being here.

Lindsay Joy Taylor  0:17  
Thank you for having me, Victoria, I appreciate it.

Victoria Volk  0:20  
I've been following Lindsay for a while on Instagram and in the grief community, and I've just really enjoyed kind of getting to know you from afar through your Instagram, and I think it's just a really a grief community would you agree is it's it's a different, it's a different environment. It's so supportive. And you agree,

Lindsay Joy Taylor  0:47  
I definitely agree. And what's been really incredible, is that, and you'll probably hear throughout my interview, but I didn't necessarily start my work in the green space. But now I'm going on six and a half years, and, and in the beginning, it was sparse. You know, certainly I think social media and online sharing has grown a lot in the last few years. But it was really sparse in the beginning. And now it's been incredible to see all of the greatest accounts and advocacy and experts that have come out of this, it's just, I don't know that I expected that or that I anticipated that. And I really, you hit it on my head in the sense that it's automatically a different community. It's automatically sort of this, like, deep sensitivity and connection. And, you know, I'm not somebody who loves smallpox so much. And it's really kind of neat to just jump right in, and we can just go to those places that really, you know, speak to our lives. So I definitely agree it's, it's different than the online world in general. But it's also different than even what it was for me in the beginning, you know, so that's been really neat to see.

Victoria Volk  1:50  
I agree. And a lot of the deep conversations that I've had throughout my life have been with people who have gone through deeply, troublesome, challenging times. And I think COVID to actually has helped to highlight grief overall, and really bring the conversation to the forefront. And so thank you for your advocacy. And for what you do. Yeah, and actually, let's start there, how did the jewel, the joyful jewelry box, come about?

Lindsay Joy Taylor  2:24  
You know, it's really kind of a special story to me, because it's sort of unfolded very organically. And yet, when I tell the story and look back on it, it's just sort of feels like this was the way the whole time. So you know, my relationship to Greece is very intimate and lifelong, that my mother was murdered when I was an infant. And so I've grown up really having a deep understanding of grief, and then also feeling very outside of it, really not understanding all the ways that it's impacted my life, because it's quite literally infused with my life. And so I think that contributed a lot to me and my temperament and who I am and what I believe in general. So I had always wanted to be in the helping services in some way, shape, or form. It's kind of funny, I was a teenager, I used to joke that I wanted to be the next Dr. Laura, she would I don't know if you're familiar with her, but she was a big time radios at the time, and really popular and they're really controversial. And like that idea of having these hard, honest conversations, not so much that she told everybody how to how to live their life, or to deal with their problems. But I really appreciated that that dialogue, for people to be honest, right. And so in some way, shape or form, I always knew that I wanted to work with people to help them in some way, shape, or form. But I don't know that I knew what that would look like. So I went to school for communications in psychology. And the short version is I ended up working in mental health, right after school, and I loved it, I did a lot of internal services that helped provide support to the direct services departments. And it just was, it was built upon my strengths, but also really could see how it was giving back to the mental health community and really not only helping me but helping others. And unfortunately, the funding for that position went away. And so I was laid off, you know, it was very much sort of what we're seeing happening now. There's just not enough services out there and for funding for the services and you have very dedicated people who want to be able to provide this work and help these people. I'm not always available to do so. So I'm sort of forced into a season of how do I get creative? How do I be flexible and support my family? My husband and I had just bought our first home and we just moved and the dog had surgery and so it was kind of this how do I use it for this season and I had always had a hobby of making jewelry and I'd reconnected with another local jewelry designer and the short version is I opened an Etsy shop. But in the beginning it wasn't necessarily grief related. It certainly wasn't Memorial REM remembrance design. It was more of like I said, just how do I navigate this time right now. And once I kind of got my flooding back underneath me and realized I wanted to give back again, I really that that meaningful piece of just working with others, and really that humanitarian side of life, you know, is what gives me a lot of joy and fulfillment. And so I thought, How do I bridge all of these pieces together. And it kind of went back to my shop name in the beginning in the sense that the joyful jewelry boxes based upon my middle name before, before my mom died, obviously, she it was important to her that that being my middle name, to sort of represent the hard season that my family was going through at the time, and then also the deep joy that they felt when I was born. And so just not knowing her and not having a relationship with her, it's always been important to me to pay homage to her in ways that I could. And so that was where the name came from. And I kind of went back to that route in terms of how do I take this meaningful piece of her life and everything I just told you and, and make it work. And I realized the jewelry was a significant piece of migrating process for my mom growing up without are used to play with her jewelry box all the time. And sift through it like it was a treasure box and just take all my favorite pieces, hide them here. And then I realized is a big comfort to me throughout my whole grief during but I didn't even necessarily realize it. Right. And so it was so neat to sort of be here and be like,

It just felt very small circle in the way of how do I take all of these pieces of them now help other people infuse joy back into their life? How do I help them honor the loved ones that they miss so much? How do I help them keep their life and their memories alive. So it was one of those things that sort of unfolded over you know, the last five years or so, I don't really know, I don't really know how it would have ended up you know, it's so funny because it didn't recognize how it was happening at the time. And I think, you know, I think grief can be like that. And a lot of ways to in the beginning, it's just sort of this horrific, all consuming pain, you really can't imagine anything outside of it. You can't imagine any joy, you can't imagine bringing meaning to the deepest pain you've ever felt. And so it sort of feels like this, like a literal metaphor in terms of what the degrees journey can be for a lot of us,

Victoria Volk  7:30  
You go through the different phases of life and your grief changes and with those phases to I think to your right, when you really start having kids and yeah,

Lindsay Joy Taylor  7:42  
When I think to kind of going back to what I said before, you know, like my middle name, for example, it feels like a big part of my grieving process now. And it was something that I actually really resented for a long time. I didn't feel like I was enjoying the person, I didn't feel like I wanted to look on the bright side of things. I didn't feel like this was my mission to carry out, so to speak, you know, that it was one season of life started to reveal itself to me so much. And yet here I am now still with all the pain and all the loneliness and growth and just all the things that happened over the years. But there's this really fulfilling component of having that connection with this community of having this touchstone of built a really beautiful place that didn't exist when I needed it. And that just Yeah, I don't know, sort of hard to put into words. I'll chemical process there, so to speak, you know,

Victoria Volk  8:37  
It's a purpose. Yeah, it's a purpose for the pain. And I can relate to that. I think we often end when we are deep in it. You can't see the other side, you can't see what's possible. You can't see possibility you don't don't look for the open doors, you don't really see your own potential, either. I think that kind of gets hidden math, 

Lindsay Joy Taylor  8:59  
Or, do we even want it? You know, I don't want to speak for all Grievers. Certainly we all have our own process. But in the work that I've done and with a lot of the Grievers that I've worked with, that desire goes away for a while takes a while for kind of all those pieces that I talked about, I mean, you know, and that's kind of the biggest piece of my story really, is that, you know, I'm a 37 year old woman, and I mom's been dead for 36 years, and I still think of her every day, I still struggle every single day and wonder what life would be like with her, what life would be like to have a relationship with her. You know, and so that's the biggest piece sort of to me in terms of this idea that it's just always going to be there in some way shape or form and it will change shape, right it will have different seasons. But this idea that you just get over it or when does it get better, you know, just that hasn't been my experience. And so that's been the biggest testament for me is really trying to use my perspective of Time, but also, you know, the unique lack of relationship there to sort of articulate that. That doesn't necessarily matter.

Victoria Volk  10:07  
No, it was your mom did you have then someone that kind of stepped in and took that role for you, and was that support for you, as a child,

Lindsay Joy Taylor  10:18  
definitely my sister, shortly after my father did remarry. And that wasn't necessarily a positive relationship. Although I had to be pretty reliant on her. She's around like a tutor for three or five, logistically speaking, right, I had to rely on her in some ways, but I have, I don't have a lot of memories of her. And the ones that I do are really actually pretty traumatic, for she left a picture of my sister. So I'm the youngest of three, my brother was nine, my sister was seven, and I was one. So at that point, you know, the years have passed, my sister was about nine, and she really stepped in and became that integral, maternal role for me. Certainly, my father kept us all together and was the head of the family video and design business and was traumatized, quite honestly, and, and wasn't, you know, wasn't the primary caretakers. So there was a long, long, long time of just a lot of renegotiating those types of roles. And I don't really know where it would be without my sister. You know, it's pretty interesting. We're, we're very close. And we're very independent. And so I don't want to say that she became my mother, but she became a model for, for me in a lot of those ways. But she also taught me how to take care of myself, too. I think, you know, I think that that was a big delineation from what I see in a lot of other or hear about in other dynamics. There was never an expectation for my father, that now it's your job to take care of your sister. She just was so selfless in that way to do that for me. So but I find that unique, I'm sort of being wordy in the way that Yes, she did step in for me, but I think she stepped in in ways and showed me how that we could take care of ourselves to, as opposed to here now I'm your mom. Does that make sense?

Victoria Volk  12:04  
Well, and that was my experience to just, I was the youngest. I was eight, when my dad passed away. And, you know, within a couple of years, my mom remarried to and actually my sister left, and my brother was, you know, like, 1314. And so he was kind of doing his own thing. And so I kind of raised myself. Yeah. So you know, I think that for a lot of child Grievers, we do learn resiliency in that way, and how to be resourceful, and how to take care of ourselves. I think we're kind of just, that's a lifestyle, we don't choose. But for me, I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change. Of course, I would absolutely love to know, I would have been like to grow up with my father. But you know, what shapes us? It shapes who we are and how we are as parents, then as adults, too. It's, you know, do you feel like I'm just curious, do you gravitate towards that? What you learn from that experience? Like, for me personally, like, I want my kids to be independent, I want them to learn how to take care of themselves, too. Because we don't know what the future holds. And I've found that for myself, did you feel that? Have you found that to as a parent?

Lindsay Joy Taylor  13:22  
I'm actually not a parent.

Victoria Volk  13:23  
And oh, I'm sorry. No, it's okay. Sorry 

Lindsay Joy Taylor  13:27  
No no problem. Um, no, I know, when I say families that technically that's my husband and my dog.

Yeah, well, hey, that's okay.

Family, there's a family. But I do also understand it creates a different context. And I'm always like, how can I communicate that without saying, my husband or my daughter. But you know, I've been very involved in not helping to raise my nieces and nephews, by any means, have certainly witnessed that journey with my sister very, very, very much. Right. And I think you're right in terms of there's wanting them to be able to take care of themselves the way that you were able to, to be able to let go of, for lack of better term, to not have the fear that they wouldn't be okay, if something would happen, right. And then I think there's also and I can't speak for you, I can only speak to what I've witnessed, but I think there's also this line of also, Oh, my gosh, I want to protect you with every part of my being because I know what those things felt like, or I know what those things felt like for me, right? Like, again, we can't always know for everybody, we're very different, but you can relate to the depths of pain, that that took place in your life. And I imagine and I hear that it's always really very a fine line in terms of how do I honor these really deep, critical resilient pieces of myself without willingly giving my child a basket of hell, you know? I that's not really. I don't mean that you know, derogatorily I think that when I look at my journey, I understand why anything can happen. My husband and I don't plan to have kids, but we also very are open to his world decides we're having children, we are a strong couple, we would be great parents, we will make it work, you know. But I'm still working out a lot of the stuff in my life. I don't think it would prevent me from being a good parent, but they're not struggles I want to have while I'm being a parent, you know, the amount of times I've heard in my life that I should have chosen to go feel the grief of not having a relationship with my mom is no way laughable. it's laughable, really, and very much like, I appreciate that that experience is actually very true for a lot of people, let me put it that way. That That is very true for a lot of people. But I don't believe that that needs to be the goal. That's not going to be my goal to have children, right, my child, their only burden in life is to be children. Right? Not to be my Savior, not to be my hero not to be my healing tool. And so for me, personally, it's just something that I've taken a lot of time to really dissect. And it's just the decision I want to be 110% sure about, and I have never gotten there yet. And I think, because of everything I just told you, you know, that that I recognize that deep pain, and that doesn't mean that I can't overcome it, and do both. It's that I, I want to want to do both. It's a good way to put it.

Victoria Volk  16:28  
Well, I didn't expect the conversation to go this way. And I'm excited. And actually, I know, I'm glad because I think it is a very good point, I made this assumption that you had children just because to me, like you come off as a very nurturing you. And I mean, I just I get that vibe from you. And so, you know, slap me on the hand for making No, not at all. But I think it's a wonderful point, though, that it's like, I think we often like there's so many people that maybe out there who've maybe had children to fill a gap to fill a void of something within them. And for me, I didn't exactly plan to have children, either, it just happened for me, and, but they are like a mirror, they really do hold a mirror to everything that we've experienced. And they'll bring up everything that you need to heal on yourself. Right? Not that they need to heal you, but show you what you need to heal. And entrepreneurship is like that, too, though. It's, you know, like, you know, building your business, your Etsy store, I'm sure that brought up different it's like a baby, you know, when you have a business, it's like a baby and brings up a lot of, you know, you can have self worth issues that come up, you can have just so many things. Would you agree?

Lindsay Joy Taylor  17:54  
Yes. And so there's a few things I just want to say Don't worry about it at all, I think that that's actually not something that I communicate very clearly to my community, or not clearly, let me put it this way, I've wondered, I wonder if that's a dialogue I should have. And, you know, I've often erred on you know, I have a lot of lost mothers in my community and, and I just don't ever, it's just not the focus of my work, per se. See how there's places where I'm minimizing my story for the sake of other people, right. And so ultimately, I just don't want you. But I also want to say to that, like nothing, and what I said was intended to be a criticism of the individuals and maybe that that was their goal. Right? I just know that that's not right, for me, personally, and that's another sort of big piece of my testimony in terms of like, honor what you know, to be true for your grieving process, right? Yeah, the most well intentioned people who are speaking from the depth of their experience of pain and so I just really wanted to clarify that didn't mean that as a judgment and certainly and certainly don't want to articulate that that's a negative situation. I just know for me and who I know what I am, that's not the best way to start a family. piggyback on that about the entrepreneurship piece. Absolutely true, which is funny because I would never have envisioned myself to be an entrepreneur but even more so and you can probably relate to this maybe. But having that that deep emotional connection right to our legacy or to our grades, like takes it to a whole nother level. And was the last week I can't even keep track within the last couple weeks you know, Instagram has shut down my account and thankfully got restored and everything's okay but in the beginning, it was very much like okay, so it's an Instagram account, big deal social media. And yet on the other hand, this is like the legacy of my mom. This is the legacy of the journey that I've created. This is tools and resources and community and support. We're all of these her carts and it just was devastating. Not another word to encapsulate, you know how I felt that day it was really just like it just Pierce's you want to play, she didn't think that it would. Because again, Business is business. And certainly it's important, important, and it's part of our livelihoods and all those things. But I think we're also in a time of life where, you know, that hustle culture and trying to really compartmentalize the roles that it should have in our life. And so it was interesting to sort of have that kind of drop on my lap, and sort of figure out like, okay, okay,

Victoria Volk  20:36  
what do I need to learn here?

Lindsay Joy Taylor  20:37  
What do I need to learn? What does this mean for me? What does this mean about my grief? What does this mean about, you know, all of those things, and nothing really changed. It just was really this. It's almost like, it becomes this sort of tangible, at least for me, in this particular instance, this tangible source of grief support, for lack of a better term or something. And anyway, yes, it's very, very, very deep and layered, and you have so many parts of yourself as an entrepreneur in and of itself. But I think we have a unique added emotional quality.

Victoria Volk  21:14  
For sure, absolutely. So growing up, I'm curious, too, if, you know, you had mentioned that your sister kind of stepped in and your dad was in the picture, but he had a business and, you know, we, you know, with having a business that takes a lot of your time. Did you receive any counseling or anything as you got older? Or, you know, what have you tried in the past? Or what has worked for you? I think that's like three or four questions. And sorry,

Lindsay Joy Taylor  21:44  
It's all the same. And so growing up the The short answer is not really my understanding of right after my mom's homicide, my family had done some trauma therapy sessions, I mean, a handful, I gather, again, I was an infant. So I can't really articulate the impact that that had, and I don't even although I'd like to write I'm sure that, you know, it still impacted me in the ways of how my family moved forward, and some things but I don't have a lot of information about that. And then it was interesting when I was in elementary school, and I still don't have a lot of information about this either. But I wound up on some of these radar. And I would get pulled out of classes to go do play therapy, I had good grades, I was well behaved. So it wasn't like a, at least from my understanding that I was that I was struggling. It was, honestly, it feels like a blessing. There are vague memories, but they're positive memories of being just in this tiny room with this play therapist. And there were some times a couple of other kids. And I don't know, it just sort of laid the groundwork a little bit in terms of all of this, I think my understanding that there were layers to things or ways to be emotional without, I think it gave me a different understanding of how you could learn about yourself emotionally speaking, right? I think that, you know, back in the 80s, and 90s, it was always just very scary. And this idea that it would be all consuming and you just kind of don't go there. And so it I don't know it was a good model for me. And so then fast forward. When I was in college, I decided to start going to the call the counseling center on campus. Like I said, My sister was such a good model for me in that way. And that was something she had done when she was in college and it was a positive experience for her and so in French is following in her footsteps. And that was actually a pivotal experience, but it was really negative. Unfortunately, what I know now of course, after being part of my healthcare system, and after earning my degree and whatnot, it was short term counseling model and I understand the limitations of that now but ultimately, you know, I'm 20 years old, if I had other 20 years old, I walk in there, I sort of explained the very loose situation of, you know, my family history and the reason that I felt like it was time was my I just sort of felt like grief was seeping out of me, right? Like none of my emotional responses. I couldn't regulate myself nothing matched up with what was really happening. And so that was sort of the catalyst and so as I explained all this to her, she was nice, not even warm or comforting. I don't even she was very Matter of fact, basically said, you're dealing with a lot of trauma, we can't help you with the amount of time that we have here. So here's the list and good luck. And I was very much like I have the resources to start in all these other places maybe I would have right and I understand now again, but she didn't even finish the session with me. It's like okay, well, let's create some support in the 60 minutes that we have. When can we call some of these people to keep some of these people together? What do we do with these resources don't work out for you or even Are you lose? Are you suicidal? You know what I mean? Like we didn't go over any of that. So that was heartbreaking for me, and why knocked out feeling really kind of broken, right? And my whole life like running and achieving and kind of proving that I was this accomplished, capable, resilient person. And then somebody basically said, Nope, not really. And so that put me off for a couple years. And by the grace of God, everything was okay. You know, there's so many people, but that's not necessarily the case. And I got another referral through a coworker. And I think I just did explained everything that I just told you. And

I just felt like a trusted situation to finally try again. And that actually was a really positive experience. So I went to that therapist for probably three years. And we did a lot of relational and a Mago work. Really this idea that right, that our romantic partners, we choose them to help them heal these unhealed parts of our childhood self. And that was actually really beneficial. But I don't know that that was the right place to start is my point in saying all of that, because if you're dealing with trauma, and you don't feel safe in relationships, you know what I mean? So, but I didn't know that the reason I'm articulating all of this is how much I sort of thought I knew in terms of what the resources are, or the avenues to take, or you just go see a therapist, right. And certain things, certainly things have changed a lot in the last 10 or 15 years, tremendously speaking in regards to trauma and whatnot, but she was a safe place. But I still don't know that that's where my healing began, if you will, and then fast forward a few more years. And I started working with a trauma informed therapist about six years ago. And I still have lots of challenges that I work on every day. But it's been pretty incredible to sort of just understand everything that I was dealing with. Now, from a different perspective, I think that I always knew that was tragic, the way that my mom died and when she died, but I don't think that I realized how traumatized I was, I don't think I realized these really clear ways in which the aftermath really created even more challenges, even more challenges than already growing up without, you know, my primary caretaker. But more than anything, you know, because again, you can go on and on about all the tips and tricks in this mat. And it won't always apply to everybody. But the biggest thing for me that really applied and kind of walking through this journey was really looking at everything that I've learned or that I was told or that I intuited from the world growing up about grief and loss. And it really just decided to save matters, this doesn't apply to me, keep trying to force myself into these boxes into these stages and these understandings of what things should be like or look like or feel like and it just was a bunch of junk. Right. And so that was the biggest tool that it gave me was to help me to trust myself, and trust my own feelings and my own opinions about things. And to know that I could honor my grief on my own whether or not people agree with it, or depending on no matter what they think about over or whatnot. And so that's been the biggest, I think role that it has supported for me is constantly providing that mirror of everything I've just said, you know, that we can choose our own way. And doing that has been, I don't want to say it's been the most healing, you know, I don't have an interesting perspective about healing. And I know that my situation is particularly complex, but but it gave me the freedom to sort of understand how I could get there. If that makes sense.

Victoria Volk  28:21  
Yeah, and, you know, we're all wired differently to and we're going to take in information differently and processes differently, and, and at some points in some stages and phases, we'll be ready for it. And other times we won't and I think we also too, tend to, we question ourselves a lot when we feel like we're kind of crazy, you know, I felt crazy. And you really can't, how do you tap into your intuition? How do you tap into your heart when you're stuck in your head. And you know, in grief recovery, we say to you can't heal the heart with the head. And the only way is to get connected within and to know, really to be led to what you need and, and follow through on that. And like you said, create your own path and it's gonna look like a roller coaster, it might look like, you know, it's not going to look the same for everybody else. We don't come to that place the same way.

Lindsay Joy Taylor  29:23  
No, and I like what you said about that body connection right? For me that was that's been a huge piece, but I don't know that I believe that we can heal without the body, right? Like if you think about your emotions and your feelings, you experience them physically, right? This Mind Body connection is so interwoven and so intertwined. And yet, for me personally, because my mom died during such a crucial developmental stage for me, and like literally, you cannot survive without other humans. You know what I mean? In a lot of ways. I think that I intuited the level of support that was available, and I don't think there was very much you know, and so I didn't act out I just shut down. You know, I've asked that I have sleep problems that I cried, did I stop eating? Did I say anything, right? And everybody's memory is very vague. Because again, time and just grief and trauma and all those things. But I think that I really cut myself off from that piece of knowing that intuitive sort of way to connect with that deep, that deep anguish, right, and it feels or sounds terrific, like, Who wants to go connect with that wants to take the time to create the space to feel that in your body, right, but otherwise, it just lives there. You know. And so that's been a big piece of being trauma informed when I say trauma informed therapist, certainly not only that, she has an understanding about, you know, what trauma is and how it plays out in our lives and all of those things, but also really how the way to heal trauma is through the body, you can't do it without it, right. And so she's really created that face to face for me to be able to feel those horrible sensations that I had to feel alone as a baby, to really give space, that pre verbal experience, right. And I don't, this is sort of an interesting thing to say, because not everybody deals with their grief by talking about it. I think I deal with life by talking about everything sort of as a result, we I wasn't even talking about the time, I literally did not have the capacity to communicate what was going on. Right. And so it just I appreciate you really making that point about the body because it's so easy to think that it's such a mental process, right? than emotional processes in our head. We're crazy, where we were stuck, we're insert whatever the world has told us, it's a crucial piece that I don't think very many of us realize, and in a way that as much as I sort of, even as I'm talking to you I'm like, and I don't even know if I am right, you know, I talk about trauma. And I talk about the body based work that I do, but I don't know that I've ever articulated or, or recognize just how in our roles in the grieving process is with the body, you know, and how often we're trying to shortchange that.

Victoria Volk  32:02  
I think, too, if you've had a traumatic experience with your body, like I have I disassociated myself from my body as well. And I didn't care about my body, I didn't take care of my body. I didn't realize the body mind body connection until I actually went through grief recovery. I say this on every episode, because I am so passionate about it. But I did not make that connection to the mind and body until I did that heart work until I really allowed myself to go there. Yeah, and it was life changing. For me, I firmly believe you cannot heal the heart with the head. It's you know, we just stuck up there some times.

Lindsay Joy Taylor  32:48  
You know, I heard another quote the other day that reminds me that a little bit something about can't feel when you're talking or something like that. And I'm like, that makes a lot he right, you know, sort of referencing what I said like I talk a million miles a minute I will ever feels right in line with that. No, until I think you made a really good point in the sense of like, there's this idea that like you won't be able to come back from it, right? Whereas the idea is that you're creating this trusting relationship where your body shows, but I can hold this. But we are strong enough to do this, right. But you're over there in the corner saying, but I can do it with only three legs when the fourth leg is over here. Right? I appreciate you making that point. And I know that we're still we're still unraveling what we know and research and all that. But I think that that's a crucial piece in terms of sort of the next piece of bridging those gaps, too, because I think too, not to take over the whole different conversation really but you know, I read a book recently called before and after last by Lisa Shulman. And it was basically like, what happens to your brain in grief. Right? And I really appreciated the context in there in terms of like, she was talking about the overlap of grief and trauma, right? Not all grief is traumatic, and not all trauma is grief. But ultimately, like when you really put them side by side, the the the number of people that are in both pools, right, and we're constantly separating them. So I just think that that's a big piece in terms of moving forward, that can articulate a lot of things. Maybe we weren't looking at sort of what you were saying you didn't understand the mind body connection, or you didn't quite understand that trauma, that trauma, that traumatic piece, right. And so I just think that we have a lot of ability to change the landscape a bit a little bit by joining them together.

Victoria Volk  34:39  
Yes, no, I would agree.

Lindsay Joy Taylor  34:41  
Pointing out how common there we go. That's what I was trying to say.

Victoria Volk  34:46  
What is one thing that you would like to get across today about your grief?

Lindsay Joy Taylor  34:52  
is one big piece I already said you know, certainly that that is lifelong, right? This idea that That I could be a 37 year old woman still grieving for somebody that I don't know. I think it speaks volumes, right. And again, I think that on one level people look at and say, Well, of course you lost your mom, it was so tragic. It was so dramatic. And yet, I think there's enough examples out there in the world where people don't really take that to heart. For me personally, but for individuals like us not playing out right now, just turning on the news, you know, to really just trying to articulate right, there really is no timeline, there is no timeframe, there are no five stages. None of them.

Victoria Volk  35:33  
Thank you. Amen.

Lindsay Joy Taylor  35:36  
Personally, that if you happen to be someone, and your experience has been that way, praise the Lord, I'm so glad for you. Because it's just a really confusing, extra added layer of anger and just frustration because you feel so alone, and so misunderstood. And all the things that are out there were most of them up until this point, really just were very unrealistic, you know, but the other piece of that maybe this is an undertone of that. But as much as I work with adults, I don't work with children, I don't feel that that's necessarily my strength. And yet my experience, I feel like, it's crucial for me to articulate that with children don't know or don't remember them. It can still impact them, let me use that word instead, right, but this idea that, that I was so strong, that I got such good grades and just insert all the junk that you know, people think is a replacement for a parent. And I bought into that that was an identity that, you know, really carried me through and I'm wondering, I'm grateful, you know, I needed something to carry me through. And yet, then I grew up and I was like, Well, shit, nobody has even any clue that I'm struggling so much. And I don't even understand why I'm struggling so much, because I've never talked about it. Right? Yes, of course, it was tragic, but only significant, right? And so it was this constant rationalization of my experience against the world. And so it's important to me to say, just, you know, don't assume that your child is going to be traumatized, because they go through a hard thing. Absolutely not. Children are so strong and so resilient, but we get to provide the tools and the environment and the resources for them to be able to communicate, or to feel safe, to be honest, if we ask what they're struggling with, you know, and to not minimize that, and to not give them some childlike answer and adorn until it comes up again. You know, that's a big piece for me in terms of really just understanding that grief impacts children too. And it's not the same as adults. And I can't even necessarily articulate how it will impact your child. But I just want people to be aware of the fact that providing that support is one of the most crucial parts of helping them heal.

Victoria Volk  37:47  
And what I've learned to like, even through grief recovery, we have the program helping children with Loss Program, yes, bar none, like going to the program has made me a better parent, just to, because if I can't tell the emotional truth about myself, how can I expect my child to come to me exactly how the emotional truth about themselves? And so it really is just to have this dialogue and conversation. You know, it's like some I've seen arguments of people online where someone takes their child to a funeral. And people are just outraged. Like, why would you do that? Why would you let them see the body in like, well, because just because you're uncomfortable with having that conversation, you know, and I saw my dad in his casket, no one talked to me about it, there was no conversation, like to piggyback on what you'd said, just because cha children, like, children bounce back, I hear that all the time, oh, they'll bounce, they'll bounce back. Those children grow up to be adults, that is never addressed, it will rear its ugly head at some way, some fab absolutely.

Lindsay Joy Taylor  38:57  
You know, and certainly, and I've seen that in my work, you know, in the ways that, you know, my family is we all grieve very differently. I would say I'm definitely one who carries the most out loud, but they are tolerant of it, and they're accepting of it. And they don't tell me to do anything different with that. And I really appreciate and respect that because they didn't sign up to have, you know, their, their deepest pain to be so public. And but it's been really incredible to see sort of the, the ways that it's impacted my family that I didn't even necessarily expect some of the conversations that I've had with my dad, I can just recognize that I'm helping them process this too, right? That doesn't mean I'm so far along. Hey, I'm right here with you. Right, but it's been really interesting and helpful. To be able to see that piece come back instead of feeling like Oh, am I crossing the boundaries, I don't want to violate anybody, you know, and I honor that, but I also need to honor my own experience, and I'm tired of living the secret, you know, and so it's really trying to honor both of those, but to see the ways that my being public about it or outspoken about it has helped them see things in a different way. Or even if it hasn't helped me understand them on a deeper level than an unexpected blessing, I guess

Victoria Volk  40:11  
And that brings up a good point, too. And that verse, I think, oftentimes we tend to sweep the hard stuff under the rug. And especially where I live the German heritage, you know, people come in said, the people that came and settled here, it was dead of winter. It's harsh. It's, I mean, that's a that's a special breed of people. You know, they're real. Yeah. Pretty hard and determined, and you know, and so it's it is this German, tough exterior culture. And we don't talk about it, we don't need that we're fine. It's really difficult for people grow up like that, to ask for help to seek out support to look for community of like minded or people that are a little, maybe a little further than they are for guidance or support. Yeah, I just wanted to highlight that point that you had brought up that supports huge,

Lindsay Joy Taylor  41:12  
and you know, that it can go both ways. I think it's sort of an interesting concept, right? Because, and I can't speak for you, but like as the children, right, it's the children who are looking to everybody else.

Victoria Volk  41:24  
Well, we resort to what we know. And we look to the adults to emulate Well, okay, well, that's how we deal with grief. Okay, I guess I'm not going to talk about it either. You know, I guess I'm fine. Several myths of grief that we talk about in grief recovery, and one of them is, you know, grieve alone. That's what I did, you know, stuff, stuff, stuff. And then there are some kids too, like we were talking about the differences, some kids will lash out, some kids will exhibit different behaviors, depending on what's been emulated for them. Yeah. Is there anything else you'd like to share?

Lindsay Joy Taylor  41:58  
More than anything, I just want to let people know that for me, in my community, what I believe is that you have the right to grieve your own way, right? There is no right or wrong way to grieve. There's no timeline to it. But what happened wasn't your fault. The biggest process, or the biggest change for me in my process was giving myself that permission to change what I think, right. And so I really just encourage your audience to really think about when it comes to their primary struggles, right? There's these little pennants that are the piece that they struggle most with, if you will, sort of what I was just saying, right, I should be over this right by now I should get over this or all of those things, I just encourage you to sort of ask yourself, where those ideas came from. You feel like they're serving you and your own process. Right? I feel like two things sort of are happening, we're all really unprepared. We get thrown into this situation, this universal human situation. And we don't know what to do, because nobody's talking about it. So we're already sort of at a deficit, for lack of a better term. I don't like that term. But we're unprepared not that you can prepare for it. But we're unprepared in the way that everything we've been told is generally not true. Or there are very strong chances that it won't look that way for you, right? And so I really want people to have the flexibility to be able to say, Where did I learn this? Who benefits for me hearing this? Does this feel right in my gut does this serve me, and if it does, then you know, do your thing. But if it doesn't, then I just really, you have the right to grieve your own way to honor your own process to do it differently. And that doesn't mean that you're doing it wrong. That doesn't mean you're dishonouring anybody that doesn't mean that you're betraying anybody, it just really is a matter of making sure that you're not grieving the way that you were prescribed grief

Victoria Volk  43:57  
I like that prescribed. Now, because I think society puts on this prescription, right, yeah, collectively, we all have these beliefs. And there are some universal beliefs. You know, Time heals all wounds we all know that line, you know, so like you said, it's, yeah, challenge what your own beliefs about what you feel about grief and what you've been taught about grief. For sure

Lindsay Joy Taylor  44:07  
And just make sure that they're yours. Right? Just make sure they're yours. Or not even yours, but the ones that have been passed on to you feel like that they're serving you right and there's an answer into this something my serapis asked me all the time to sort of because I often feel like well how do I really know you know, there's so much as like, you know, I think a lot of what we talked about there's this sort of disconnect in and of itself, but it's also can be overwhelming, like you don't know until you go through it. Right, more about really just recognizing that what works for you what works for other people. It just doesn't, but you're also not going fairly good to know that right off the bat, too, right. And so there's some trial and error there in terms of figuring out what your journey is, and how you can infuse pieces that did speak to you. And my therapist, she will often say, you know, when we're trying to figure out if something feels good, or expansive, or healthy or productive, we're fulfilling insert whatever word you want to use for you. It's more of like, does that feel expansive in your heart, you know, and that doesn't necessarily mean that sadness is going to fill you up with joy. But again, it's sort of tapping into those, those sensations in your body, right, the things that are right for you, you're going to feel expansive, you're going to feel open, you're going to feel like oh, I kind of feel like I can breathe right there. I don't feel relieved, per se, but I feel a shift, right? Whereas the things that are not right for you, you're instantly going to clench up, you're going to shut down, you're going to feel rigid, you're going to feel resistant, right. And so those can sort of be those intuitive nudges in terms of I don't really know what I feel or what feels good, or what's helpful or not. And those are kind of the the sensations that you can follow to get more clarity there.

Victoria Volk  46:05  
There's two points, I just think two things that came to my mind. Well, one, I think, too, it's having an open mind, like just being open to whatever may come your way that if it piques your interest, there's a reason. Yeah, you know, if and follow that curiosity of what may be helped, you know, because it could be the thing that unlocks everything that changes your life. That's what happened for me. But the other thing too, is I coming from an energy standpoint as a Reiki Master and I was not even remotely like, I'd never even experienced Reiki before I became certified in it. Oh, really? Yeah, I just I was led to it. I had, I was curious about it. And it wasn't until I like did the inner work. But there's one thing that people could do stand up straight and tall and you put your hands on your chest and you can said you can do the sitting too I suppose but you close your eyes and you ask yourself the question whatever it is that you're trying to discern, you know, like, should I go to this workshop? Is this workshop good for me? or you know whatever it is? Yeah, and if you feel yourself kind of leaning forward like a good that's like a good thing but if you find yourself going back like leaning back like your body just as being pulled backwards that's like a contracting that's that just kind of right is like because our bodies always speak to us always. And I that's the thing too like that's I've really tapped into the body energy aspect of my own healing and have learned so much about that mind body connection because we are energy we are made up of energy our feelings emotions, our thoughts have energy behind them and our body knows our body knows so just do that you know try that our

Lindsay Joy Taylor  48:17  
Our body's energy too right level painter oh wow that's

Victoria Volk  48:22  
The cellular level like every we are made up of cells and cells our energy learning so much.

Lindsay Joy Taylor  48:31  
Yeah, definitely. I love seeing your face light up with the Reiki I've had it done and I actually have an invitation to go be certified in that recently and I decided not to only because I still am feeling like I for me Does that make sense? In terms of like I've noticed I'm always in this isn't a bad thing by any means. But I always go like serve others in ways of like serving myself and I was like but that's actually an area where I just want to be served. Does that make sense?

Victoria Volk  49:04  
Oh, Reiki serves and that's it. Oh my gosh. It is a gift that will keep on giving to yourself

Lindsay Joy Taylor  49:13  
Just moving here because I feel this isn't even necessarily anything I talked about per se but you know attachment trauma I have attachment trauma obviously from losing my mom at such a pivotal time and not having really safe and consistent caretaking after that and so I get really nervous that like when I how do I do this? I'm scared that I won't be able to hold my boundaries. And that was a big piece of what I was doing counseling work. I felt like I like had the whole world was on my shoulders. And so that was that was sort of where I was able to say well I'm and I'm much more of an advocate as opposed to like therapists and you know, that boundary really serves me in terms of what My responsibility and kind of all that, but there's certainly a fear with the Reiki that I'm nervous that like all something on will never get any sense.

Victoria Volk  50:10  
Yeah, and you know what if you just do Reiki level one and two, you can give Reiki to yourself. Just think of it, it's for yourself and that's why I did it. That is why I did was for myself didn't know you could do that to yourself and I went on to the next level, what's up?

Lindsay Joy Taylor  50:30  
I didn't know that you could do Reiki on yourself, I guess I how does that work?

Victoria Volk  50:36  
We will have to have another conversation.

Lindsay Joy Taylor  50:40  
Right? I'm just referring to the experiences I've had.

Victoria Volk  50:44  
No, it's not just for really, I went to get certified for me. And but it's really just, it's really, I've gotten so much back from it, and helping other people too with rate, you know, giving, giving Reiki and things like that. But I just it's opened up like I went for Reiki Master and like in a few weeks, I'm doing my Corona. It's like the next level up. And that's the next level after that is licensed and there's only like 30 licensed as UI Reiki masters.

Lindsay Joy Taylor  51:16  
Congratulations. That's really exciting.

Victoria Volk  51:19  
It is exciting. So I'm excited for that. But yeah, it's, um, we'll just have to have another conversation about that. But we will do if the universe keeps hitting you on the head and showing up for you. Reiki, reiki, reiki, that's what was happening for me. Like I kept hearing about it. I've seen it. And I had never experienced it, like I said, and I just thought, What is this Reiki business? You know? And so

Lindsay Joy Taylor  51:45  
Yeah, pretty magical. I mean, the experience that I have had was very magical. But like I said, I felt very, like, you know, you were the guide. I was just the receptacle or something. And I'm glad we got onto this little bit.

Victoria Volk  51:59  
Yeah, well, like energy, grief. It's all connected. all connected. So where can people find you? If they want to connect with you?

Lindsay Joy Taylor  52:10  
Absolutely. So my shop is the joyfuljewelry box.com and you can connect with me there. Normally I start with my social media. But since that got a little weird lately, you can always find me in my shop on Instagram, I am at the joyful jewelry box. And or if you just want to email me if there's any questions you had or this conversation spoke to you, you can always email me at the joyfuljewelrybox@gmail.com

Victoria Volk  52:37  
Thank you so much for being here. This was such a different conversation, in a good way. I'm glad it went where it went, I think the message that you needed to get across I, I felt it, I hope my audience does as well.

Lindsay Joy Taylor  52:53  
Thank you, Victoria, I appreciate you reaching out and just anybody in your audience, you're welcome to come to my community and not as a replacement by any means. It's not what I meant, but I just love meeting anybody who finds me through other grief communities. It's just really cool to see how we can all learn each other and really, you know, create the connections from our stories, you know, like I said, from being able to really just start from a place of knowing who people are, or at least some of the most important parts of who we are. So I really love when people come over and share their story with me or share why my story spoke to them or whatnot. So love to meet anybody. 

Victoria Volk  53:30  
Well, I think too, it's part of the mission of mine reason for starting this podcast was to talk about grief. Like we talked about the weather. Exactly. And so whether it's my account your account, another grieving account, grief account, it doesn't matter. It's we're talking about it. And that's that's the goal is to normalize it, right? 

Lindsay Joy Taylor  53:50  
Absolutely. Absolutely. So thank you for what you're doing to normalize it and I was poking around on your website today and it's just it's cool to see everything that you're doing right I love that you're providing one on one support, I love that you're providing online support, I just it was neat to see all the different offerings that you have and I think that people can get scared of course, freaking scary woman but I think that they get scared that you know, there are only so many options and it's just not going to work for them and ultimately the point is is just like you said, keep your mind open. This is such a unique and nuanced process like nothing can ever really be captured in one of these conversations or in one Instagram posts etc. And so I just encourage you to seek out those safe communities to be able to have these conversations. I think you and I both sort of articulated that. When things are ready it reveals itself to us when we are ready or not you know

Victoria Volk  54:51  
And universal hit you on the head till you till you open the door. All right, 

Lindsay Joy Taylor  54:57  
Thank you for all that you're doing and giving back to this to me The I really appreciate it.

Victoria Volk  55:02  
Likewise, come back next week for another interview and thank you Lindsay, for being on and have a great rest of your day everyone. Much love