We're taught how to attain relationships, careers, things, etc.. However, we're not taught what to do when we lose them.
When Susan lost her husband to a rare form of lung cancer, she was surrounded by grief. From her own pain, she created the Tendrils of Grief podcast, which showcases grief professionals who can help provide guidance and advice to those who might feel so alone in their journey.
Through her podcast, Susan also shines a light on the stories of those who have recently lost someone close to them. It's a podcast to help you grieve and feel connected to a wider network of people in the same place as you are.
"You are not alone," she says, "on this journey, and there is a path forward."
Susan shares how she navigated the loss of her husband, the impact that loss had on other relationships, her daughter, her career, and what she learned, through working with an energy coach in how to discern what she needed for her well-being.
Also, if you know someone grieving, we also dig into the topic of how to show up for grievers, even if it means having a tough conversation.
Connect with Susan:
https://www.tendrilsofgrief.com / susan_ways@msn.com
______
If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, there are free resources available HERE.
If you'd like to share your grieving voice on the show or want to share your thoughts about an episode, please send an email to victoria@theunleashedheart.com.
Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.
______
WAYS TO SUPPORT THE SHOW:
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA (@theunleashedheart):
This episode is sponsored by Do Grief Differently™️, my twelve-week, one-on-one, in-person/online program for grievers who have suffered any type of loss to feel better. Click here to learn new tools, grief education, and the only evidence-based method for moving beyond the pain of grief.
Would you like to join the mission of Grieving Voices in normalizing grief and supporting hurting hearts everywhere? Become a supporter of the show HERE.
We're taught how to attain relationships, careers, things, etc.. However, we're not taught what to do when we lose them.
When Susan lost her husband to a rare form of lung cancer, she was surrounded by grief. From her own pain, she created the Tendrils of Grief podcast, which showcases grief professionals who can help provide guidance and advice to those who might feel so alone in their journey.
Through her podcast, Susan also shines a light on the stories of those who have recently lost someone close to them. It's a podcast to help you grieve and feel connected to a wider network of people in the same place as you are.
"You are not alone," she says, "on this journey, and there is a path forward."
Susan shares how she navigated the loss of her husband, the impact that loss had on other relationships, her daughter, her career, and what she learned, through working with an energy coach in how to discern what she needed for her well-being.
Also, if you know someone grieving, we also dig into the topic of how to show up for grievers, even if it means having a tough conversation.
Connect with Susan:
https://www.tendrilsofgrief.com / susan_ways@msn.com
______
If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, there are free resources available HERE.
If you'd like to share your grieving voice on the show or want to share your thoughts about an episode, please send an email to victoria@theunleashedheart.com.
Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.
______
WAYS TO SUPPORT THE SHOW:
CONNECT WITH VICTORIA (@theunleashedheart):
This episode is sponsored by Do Grief Differently™️, my twelve-week, one-on-one, in-person/online program for grievers who have suffered any type of loss to feel better. Click here to learn new tools, grief education, and the only evidence-based method for moving beyond the pain of grief.
Would you like to join the mission of Grieving Voices in normalizing grief and supporting hurting hearts everywhere? Become a supporter of the show HERE.
Victoria Volk 0:00
Thank you for tuning in everyone. Today I bring you Susan Ways. When Susan lost her young husband to a rare form of lung cancer, she was surrounded by grief from her own pain. She created the tendrils of grief podcast which showcases grief professionals who can guide provide, who can provide guidance and advice to those who might feel alone in their journey and feel connected to a wider network of people in the same place. You are. You are not alone, she says on this journey. And there is a path forward. So I look forward to bringing you Susan and our conversation today. Susan, say hello, welcome. Welcome to the show.
Susan Ways 0:41
Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be a part of your show.
Victoria Volk 0:45
Yes. And I was actually on Susan's podcast, the tendrils of grief that has not aired yet is that correct?
Susan Ways 0:52
It has not aired, it's coming up.
Victoria Volk 0:54
And we had a really good conversation about the grief recovery work that I do and stuff, and I just really resonated with Susan's story. Her early story of grief is really quite parallel to my own, as you'll, as you'll hear later in the show, but what brought you to starting the tendrils of grief?
Susan Ways 1:15
Well, it's really an interesting story. Because when my husband was sick and diagnosed with cancer, he knows that I love to write and I had a very successful blog on HR, because that's what I do professionally. And some of my blog entries have over 20,000 views. So was quite popular. And it was something I could do. And my heart just wasn't with it. And in that at the time. And so he had asked me to write a book on his journey. And I journaled everything because I journal regularly and I journaled everything as he went through his journey. But I didn't really feel led at that time. And things change, as you know, and you're in a different place all the time. But I didn't feel led to write a book. And I also didn't have the attention span when I was grieving to really even read books. But what I did have the attention span to do was to listen to a podcast, providing that it wasn't too long. And I started to look for podcasts on grief. And I just couldn't find anything that was relatable. It was all very prescriptive and done from mental health professionals and talking about the stages of grief and the psychology of grief and the chemical brain reaction to grief. And I remember one time there was a podcast title, labeled social media and grief. And I was so excited about that. And I tuned into it, and it was want want long, boring. And so I was like, I've got to get a podcast out there that's relatable because I can't be the only person out here experiencing that the lack of attention, the lack of wanting to sit down and read and finish a book, but having little blocks of time where I could plug into something. And I felt like this would be a great opportunity for me to pay it forward. And it also became an incredible part of my healing process.
Victoria Volk 3:10
I love that. It's it's like you, you're looking for something like what could be helpful to me. And when you didn't find it, you jumped in. Right?
Susan Ways 3:19
Right and created it.
Victoria Volk 3:21
Yeah, exactly. That's what we do in entrepreneurship. That's what that's what creation and creatives do. So I love that. So what did you find was helpful to you. During that time? I know you said it was you felt it was healing. But can you speak more? A little bit more to that, like, what was it? Was it just because what kind of guests do you have typically?
Susan Ways 3:44
There were a couple of things that were helpful to me. One was, first of all, it's important to know that I was up at night, really afraid? How am I going to find gas to do a weekly podcast? How am I going to find topics, and I can't keep guests from coming. And that's a great problem to have. And I'm grateful for that. But I have so many guests and it's I had to take a little bit of a step back because I was getting so far ahead of my recording schedule. So talking to all of these different people and hearing their stories and understanding that I'm not alone because you get stuck in shame and guilt, and all of those negative emotions because I have one podcast that's been extremely popular where I talk about my transition back to work, and I felt like I had done something wrong and my grieving was wrong and that my grieving made me unprofessional and non productive and not worthy as an employee. And it was so incredibly hurtful to me. And it was almost it was shameful to talk about because as a professional, you want to be seen as a superstar. And so I left that job I had to leave that job because it was killing my soul. When I left it was so empowering. But there was a Wait, how do I share the story and then I started to talk to other people and they have the same story and I had Some difficult relations with other people in my family around my grief and conflicting grieving styles. Again, you feel like a bad person, and I should accept these people, and I should love them, and I should create space for them. But I just realized through this journey and talking to other people, no, I don't have to do that. The one thing and I talked about the social media podcast that I listened to, and I was really excited because we log on to social media, sometimes first thing in the morning, and you see other people's wonderful lives, and they have it showcased and lights and stars, I felt like my life was not wonderful, and it makes you feel really badly. And so I brought on a social media expert, who actually is a woman's business social media expert, but she came on and delivered the podcast that I needed to hear personally about empowering yourself creating the social media community that feeds your soul, not one that sucks from it, I gave myself permission through her words, to create a really empowering social media community. And I no longer have that fear of logging on in the morning. But I if I do if I log on, and I see a post that doesn't make me feel good, I can unfollow you, or I can unfriend you. And I've given myself permission to do that. So just a lot of stories, a lot of parallel stories from people from grief professionals from just other professionals, like she's not a great professional, she's a social media expert. And just having that empowerment and that permission to stand up for myself and create my own path forward was really just the most empowering thing I think I've gotten from all of this.
Victoria Volk 6:41
You bring up a good point in that cleaning up our social media is probably one of the first acts of self care that we can do as a griever. And when we're grieving, because like you said, you can you can be wrapped up in your own story, but and that takes time and however much time it takes you to unravel all of that, and the feelings of with that. But what isn't helpful, like you said, his people who will come on and say remarks like well, you should be over it by now, like all these myths of grief that were taught from childhood or not, and replace the loss, you know, you can marry again, you're young yet you know, things like that. So that's a very important message, I think to share with people today that they can take away is that you know, maybe look at your social media and clean up what what you're putting into your brain, what is not helping you feel better, right? Also, too, can you speak to that transition a little bit?
Susan Ways 7:40
Sure. And I do want to say one quick thing, follow up to the social media piece is that we're taught that if we unfriend someone or unfollow them, that it's mature, or it's petty, childish, and it's really not, because just saying I don't want to be connected with you on Facebook doesn't mean I don't value you as a person, it doesn't mean that I don't like you, it just means that it's not part of that social media media community that I'm looking to build. And so I just kind of want to throw that out there. Because when we give ourselves permission to do things, we have changed the narrative around it too. And it's you can have conversations with people or not. And I know some people were upset that I unfriended them on Facebook, but that's okay. Because if you're my friend, you're going to pick up the phone and have a conversation with me about it. And those are some of the things that I learned. The transition for me moving into the podcast was really around, I have actually been working with a coach who is an energy coach, and not something that I ever believed in, and not something that I ever really liked. But I just like her style of coaching. And I like her. And she's was working with me on the podcast and working on manifesting and really trying to visualize what it is that I want and then create that. And watch how I talk about it and watch how I position it. And it's interesting because like I said, I just the guests were coming to me the shows were coming to me Everything was unfolding in this really beautiful organic way. And my listenership has been steadily increasing. And I don't, success is a relative term. And people success might mean money and fame to some people. And it might just mean making a difference to someone else. And Success to me just meant that I was reaching people, and it doesn't necessarily have to be 1000s and 1000s of people. I just want to be reaching people. So as I evolved through this process and got very clear on what it was that I wanted as an outcome and what I wanted my guests to walk away from. It's just it's been wonderful and I've had non Grievers reach out to me and say, thank you so much for this because I never know what to say when someone is grieving somebody actually reached out to me that I don't even know now I've never met and they said, I just want to thank you because my best friend lost her mom two years ago. And after listening to your podcast, I realized I didn't show up for her the way I should have. And I called her to apologize and keep doing this. So that stuff, just really, that transition has just been an evolution. And it's been a very slow and natural evolution, which is what has kept me motivated to keep going.
Victoria Volk 10:26
And I think we share the same mission, right to reach as many people as we can. And that's why we started podcasts about grief in our own experiences and things like that. I also want to bring circle back to the support you didn't feel when you decided to leave your job and what you were experiencing there. Because I think that often is the case where employers, you know, I think the standard in the us right now is like you get four days of bereavement time. It's like so even our employers are deciding how much time it takes you to grieve like, okay, you get four days, like that's the standard, something like that three to four days, I'm not sure. Obviously, if you have paid time off, you can use that or sick leave. But that's actual like set aside for bereavement time, which clearly is not like you're not going to bury your loved one. And then Okay, I'm back. You know, that's unrealistic. But yet people look to you to do that. society expects you to come back and be back as a whole person and to function as you did before. But grief changes us, you know that I know that it changes every cell changes you on a cellular level. I mean, kudos to you, though, for recognizing that it wasn't a supportive environment and forgiving yourself permission like, Hey, I don't need this. This isn't serving me, this isn't helping me. It's draining me. It's soul sucking, I think, too, it's like, that's where we need to, like you said, give ourselves permission to create those boundaries, whether it be on social media, whether it be in relationships, face to face with our employers, employees, co workers, family, I think that's one to where we really discover at some point in grief, where we need to create boundaries, eventually, you know, you get to the point where you're just kind of sick of what's coming at you all the time, right? That's unhelpful, and often hurtful, not necessarily intentional, but based on what we all learn. That's just what we know, we resort to what we know, the one loss that brought you to starting the podcast was the loss of your husband, do you want to speak to that?
Susan Ways 12:34
Sure. The, and I want to double back a little bit just because it losing my I didn't lose my job, I walked away from my job. But it was a very important part of this journey that brought me to wanting to do the podcast. And I think that one thing that's important to mention when people go through this is something's not all bad, or not all good. And it becomes a confusing space to be in. And there was a person that I worked with, at this company, who I think is one of the most amazing human beings that I ever met, and somebody who I just really valued their friendship. And she didn't show up for me at a critical time in my life, the way I needed her to show up. And she didn't, because she felt she couldn't, because there were consequences to her and it becomes a self preservation type of situation. And so I'm not actively angry at her, I've chosen not to be in a relationship with her at this point, because I just one of my values has become my friend show up for me even when it's tough for them. But likewise, I show up for my friends, even when it's tough for me, and I've learned that so I want to definitely model that behavior. But there were some wonderful things that my employer did some very generous things, including they sponsor the wake the dinner at the wake for my husband's so it became confusing, because there were these wonderful things that they did. And then these awful things. And as I was in a grieving state where you know, you're not always thinking clearly, and you're not always focused. And they, I just became extra confused. But what I knew is I became fearful. And when I feel like this is another one of my values that has come out of that, when I feel that I have to protect myself against you, we have a problem. And I've learned to pay attention to that and not make excuses for people because my analogy is if you have a dog, and you pet the dog 810 times and eight times the dog licks your hand and twice the dog bites you you're always going to be afraid to pet the dog, even though the bites are less frequent exponentially than the licks. So that's just human nature. So I want to make that really clear because I think that as people are grieving and they're in, whether it's a work relationship or just another personal relationship where you feel there's this conflict of good and bad and carrots and sticks or whatever you want to call it licks and bytes. Whatever it is, you really need to pay attention to that. And you need to make sure that something is filling your soul and isn't leaving you questioning yourself your own value, or what how you're grieving what you're going through. Because however you grieve is how you grieve. And there's no right or wrong way to that. So I just want to highlight that, but that loss, my husband passing away, because we had a great marriage, we had a great life, we had a great family, we were grateful, we were happy. We just really, today is the start of football season. Technically, I think it started Thursday night, but today there's games on. And this would be a time when football would be on the TV and I would be making dinner and we would be at home doing projects together. And I missed that. That's something that I really appreciated in our life, and something that I don't have now. So this loss really just seeped into every area of my life. And that's how I came up with the title tendrils of grief because it's not just the sadness. It's not just the loss, there's there's things that people don't realize, when there's a noise in the middle of the night, I'm now the one that has to get up and go investigate it, it's silly little things like that. Or if something needs repaired around the house, I'm YouTubing, how to repair things. I've repaired the dishwasher, I've repaired the garage door, I repaired the washing machine. I've done all these things I never thought I could do which is wonderful and empowering. But there's a part of me that feels resentful to that it has to be me that it's not him anymore. And I wanted to talk about those things, I wanted to talk about that magical one year anniversary, where everyone thinks that you have flipped the switch into moving forward. Or even if you're dating that that means Oh, you're over that now you're over the last year over the grief, and you're not, and things can live, they can coexist in the same space, you can have a life with someone else while still grieving the loss of somebody else. And it's just there's a lot of things that I just felt like were really important to talk about. And I think the one event that pushed me over the edge to knowing that I had to do this beyond a shadow of a doubt is I didn't want to live after my husband died. And I wondered many times, if I didn't have my daughter, would I have ever had the courage to commit suicide because I just I didn't I wasn't actively suicidal. But I knew I didn't want to be here anymore. I really just wanted to go and be with my husband. And I was really shameful about that. And I didn't want to tell anyone because I didn't want to, I'm having all of these really catastrophic thoughts such as they're gonna come and take my daughter away from me, because I'm suicidal, that they're gonna come and put me in a mental institution, or they're going to make me take medication. And I didn't want any of that. So I didn't talk about it. And finally, I said to one of my really good friends who lost her husband, I said, Do you ever feel like you don't want to live anymore? And she said, Oh, yeah, every day. And I didn't even want to Google search it because I was so afraid that somebody would find out that I had Google search this and they didn't start to sound the alarm. So when I and then I started to talk about it more, I have a broader group of ladies, I know I've lost their husband and I talked to them about it. And every one of them was like, Yes, we feel like this all the time. And I thought, if I'm feeling shame, and fear around this, other people are too and I've got to start getting the message out there to people around all of these things, whatever it is that people want to talk about around their grief, someone else needs to hear that message.
Victoria Volk 18:42
That's Yeah, absolutely powerful. Just everything you just said. Like you said, it seeps into every aspect of our lives. And I'm curious, though, what was the one aside from you finding inspiration or feeling that inspired, hit or however you want to say it to start the podcast? What was it in particular, that helped you flip that switch? Like, what was it? Had you been going to therapy? Had you just kind of through journaling? Had you had this awareness of what needed to change? Like, how did you turn around all of those thoughts and feelings? Like what was it for you?
Susan Ways 19:26
Well, I was going to, I was getting the coaching with the coach that the energy coach that I had been talking about, I was still in grief counseling at the time, as well. But the energy coach really did help me see that. But my friends started to come to Me too. And they started to say, you need to do this, we want you to do this, this will be great for you. And all of a sudden I had support from my community that I didn't solicit because you know, when you go and we ask our friends and we say, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this, what do you think? And they're thinking, Oh, yeah, That's a great idea while they're shaking their head, no. And I didn't get that I got I wasn't really going to them. I was talking about it and saying, I'm kind of thinking about doing this, but I don't know I'm scared. And then they started to come back to me and say, You need to do this, you need to do this. And finally working with the coach. She said to me, and I trust this woman so much. She said to me, Susan, you need to do this. She said, I have goosebumps just listening to you talk about this podcast, and you need to do this. She said, you are going to help so many people. And that was really when I was like, Alright, dammit, I'm doing it. And I just jumped off the ledge and did it. And before that I had done all this investigation. All of this research, I contacted podcasting, hosting companies, I looked at different equipment. I was kind of window shopping everything. But when she said that, I was like, Okay, I'm in, because I wanted to do it. And again, it comes down to permission a lot for many of us, not just me, but I can only speak for me, it comes down to permission for me. And sometimes when I want to do something that's scary and uncertain, I just need the permission of the right people around me. And I all of a sudden felt like I was getting that. And so I just went for it.
Victoria Volk 21:18
Support huge. Absolutely. I 100% agree. What does that quote something you're you're a some of the five people you surround yourself with, or something like that, right? So especially in grief, I absolutely agree. Support is huge. And it's why like in grief recovery, we have the groups which are phenomenal for people who want to are ready to take action. I'm curious if you had tried like traditional, like church support groups, things like that. Had you tried that at all, prior, like early on,
Susan Ways 21:47
I went to a hospice support group. And it was not a good fit for me. And probably, Paul had passed maybe three between three and six months at that point. And I went in, and there were people there who were very stuck in grief. And I'm gonna say this with no judgement, because I'm talking about what I needed to feed my soul at that time. But there were people who just really were talking in a in a really depressive way they were, there was one conversation about what kind of medication are you on? And what kind of medication Are you on. And I thought I don't want to take medication and not because there's anything wrong with it. But I have a very bad reaction to any kind of like SSRI or any kind of medication in that class. So it's hard for me to take medication, and that wasn't a path I wanted to go down. And I there was one woman who couldn't get out of bed. And she had lost her job because she couldn't show up physically to work. And here I was slugging it out every day and getting kind of attacked at work. And then there was a woman who didn't get out of bed and and I thought I don't want to be that person. And you know, it's just a, it's just a twist of fate to not be that person, because you have to really well yourself many times to get up and get out of that. And there was another woman who had lost her husband, and then got engaged and lost her fiance. And it was just too much sad for me. And I needed hope. And that's what I wanted. I didn't want to sit in a room with people who didn't appear to have hope, which was what that group ended up feeling like for me. And it was probably wonderful for all of them because maybe they needed to commiserate. And that was part of their grief process and part of their healing journey. But it was terrifying for me because I was like, I don't want to be here in five years having this conversation. I don't want to be not able to get out of bed. I don't want to be just one woman was getting evicted from her house, which I know happens to a lot of people because they just can't afford after they lose someone. And on my podcast, a young woman talks about how she her mom passed away while she was in college, and she got evicted from the apartment that they were living in together. I mean, that's a very horrible reality. But I needed help. I needed somebody to say, I got through this. And here's how. And I needed a lot of somebody to say that and not somebody that was a multimillionaire, you read about these people in the magazines, or you see them interviewed on TV, and to me they're not real and I know they're real, but their life is not relatable at all to my life. I needed people that I could relate to and again, becoming a part of what led me into wanting to do the podcast.
Victoria Volk 24:39
And that's one of the distinctions too we make in grief recovery is those the difference between a grief recovery group and then a regular support group and that like you said, there's there really isn't action involved. And that's the distinction I want to make too and that you recognize there was an action being taken. There was there wasn't hope there. It That's the distinction, I think, is that there wasn't hold because there wasn't action. So you come back week after week, and you share the same story, you're in the same story week after week, where is the whole and even that is a choice. So that's a choice we make, even in grief. And that is, the difficult part of it is that it's not a judgement. But we have to have that awareness about ourselves. And I think oftentimes, too, it comes down to what you feel worthy of, you know, what I think so often to like, when people engage in this traditional support groups, it might feel like, I'm not worthy of more, I'm not worthy of healing, I'm not worthy of there's better than this, I deserve better than this. And that's a hard thing to come to, if you never felt worthy. And that's where I suffered for over 30 years, because I didn't feel worthy, you know, I'd worked self worth issues, like many of us do, but so I that's where I commend you and saying, what you saw possibility you saw hope elsewhere, you know, and that's the message to I want to get across to people listening is that hope isn't gonna find us if we aren't looking for it necessarily. Sometimes we're, we're kind of blinded to it, it can even hit us on the head. And we might not even see it the potential or the possibility, because we're so we're just so sad. We're so down, we're so consumed by our reality at the time. So what
Susan Ways 26:30
I love the term that somebody said to me once, that when you start complaining about something without any kind of actionable outcome, because how do I get out of this situation, we all have problems. And life is not perfect, or neat or pretty all the time. And when you have these issues that come up, you want to work them out with your friends, and so you have a conversation. But when you're having that conversation over and over again, and this is what I really just walked away with from talking to this other person is that you're now having a non versation. And conversation is when you're talking to somebody about something you have no intention or action plan, as you said, on how to change it. And I didn't want that I needed to know that there was hope. And I needed to start to attract people into my life because as you said, You have a choice. And I could have gone to that support group week after week. And I could have wallowed in my self pity, and not moved forward and commiserated with people in that same energy that I was in. Or I could begin to attract the people in my life that were going to show me that there was hope. And not only show me how there was hope, but show me how to get there. And how did they get there, and what tools did they use, because grieving is not a one size fits all. And you can talk to 20 people and get 20 different tools, and they're all going to work for you at different times, or maybe not all are going to work for you. But some may not work at the time that you hear them, but may work later. And some might be able to be massaged into something that can work for you. So I think that's really important is when you do make those choices, it's about being clear on your vision and where you want to go. And then beginning to create that vision and surrounding yourself with those five people that you've talked about earlier.
Victoria Volk 28:15
I love the talk about energy too, because as an energy healer in Reiki, which I didn't get opened up to until after I did my own grief recovery work with on myself, but we are energy. And every thought every feeling has energy behind it. And so when you're in a room, and you're trying to vibe, I guess you could say or, you know, come from a space of high vibes or just more elevated energy, where you want to attract that to you. It is harder when you're surrounded by less hopeful energy, I guess you know, I think you know what I'm trying to say. But yeah, so it is the energy we bring.
Susan Ways 28:58
Sometimes you need to sit in that energy. Sometimes you need to be in that non helpful energy. And I'm a big believer that you go through your grief process in a way that's meaningful to you. And trust me, I had many pity parties, and I had many non helpful days. And I finally got on my own nerves and was I just couldn't, I didn't want to be around myself. I couldn't imagine how anyone else wanted to be around me. And so that's really what inspired me to start searching for hope.
Victoria Volk 29:25
Same. Absolutely. 100% that's I got tired of my own Bias, right? Really? So what would you like to screen to the world and the rich people knew about your grief.
Susan Ways 29:38
There's two things that I would like people to know about my grief. One is and it's really funny because I was having a conversation with a friend who lost his wife and they were married a little bit longer than Paul and I were married but I said you know that sideview mirror that says objects in the mirror are closer than they appear. I said I feel like I need a sign on me that says My life is not quite as put together as what it would appear, and I think that people judge you and treat you the way they perceive your life is going. And just because I'm smiling and well put together on the outside doesn't mean that I'm not falling apart on the inside. And my grieving is not over. And I would like people to know that. And I would also like people to know that to show up with love, and show up with tenderness. And that's been really important to me, and especially for those people who love me and who I'm friends with, or who I have in my inner circle. Even days when I may be behaving in an unlovable way, tell me that, but tell me in a lovable way, that I'm behaving that way. And I talk about this so often on my podcast, I had a friend who I thought was just a really, really good friend. And she just stopped talking to me. And in the process of stopping talking to me, she was pretty ugly about it. And I tried to talk to her and find out what was going on. And the only thing I can think of is that I was relying on her very heavily, too heavily during my grieving. And she made a couple of comments to me, but she never sat down and said, hey, look, I love you. And you matter to me, but I've got my own family and my own job and my own stuff going on. And this is really too heavy for me. So if you can start to look for other resources, I would really appreciate that she never did that. She just cut me off and did it in a really unloving and ugly way. And my daughter was actually very good friends with her daughter. And her daughter began to treat my daughter in the same exact way. So I'm sure there was some conversations, and I'm only assuming, and I don't know, but I'm guessing there were some conversations in that household. Because her daughter didn't like the way my daughter was grieving and became very ugly, and actually created an uncomfortable situation for my daughter and a sports not event but a sporting a sport that she was involved in. And this girl, as teenage girls will do allied up with other girls and was quite ugly. And Madison ended up having to pretty much walk away from the sport for the, again for what was good for her soul and what was best for her soul. And so I just treat people with love to speak kind that saying that you don't know the battle that someone is fighting, you don't have to like someone, you don't have to be their best friend, but treat them with kindness. And if you do love someone sit down and have a conversation with them, because they deserve it, you deserve it, your relationship deserves it, and it's going to make you a better person in the long run.
Victoria Volk 32:38
I relate to that story, too. I had lost a friendship kind of in the same sort of way where they just stopped talking to me and I didn't understand what was going on. And really, it came down to me, like, kind of latching on and too much coming on too strong or feeling like maybe I was more invested in her than she wasn't me, you know, and it was hurtful. And but that's the ripples, right? The ripples of grief, how it just kind of makes its way outward. And like you explained, you know, with your daughter, the friendship, how that just kind of, you know, created ripples then in her life and impacted her then as well. I think that's one thing too, we don't realize is how one action that we take. And one thing that we say can just really have those ripples. And so I appreciate you bringing that up just the fact of having, looking at people with tender eyes, almost as if you have their heart in your hands like that. Yeah. I think Yeah, I'll leave
Susan Ways 33:43
Is a great way to put that because it really just I'm a strong person, I don't like to ask for help. And I think what happened now that I look back is that I found someone who I thought was safe to ask help from and I probably asked too much. Because in trying to keep myself comfortable, I made that person uncomfortable. And again, I can only guess because I've tried to have conversations and the person will not engage and I just walked away because it was not good for my soul, I would have been so fine if that person just like I said was loving and kind and said, Hey, this is just too much for me. Because people do have their own lives and they can't hold my hand and they can't be there for me and take the role of my late husband. But it was a big change for me. And he was the caretaker and he was the one he worked from home. And so he did all the transportation and he did a lot of the things during the day and now all of a sudden I had to do it all by myself. And I thought I had someone that could be a good partner in that and probably overstepped my boundaries and I'm sure that I did, but there's a gentle and a loving way to communicate that to someone especially when they're grieving. You should do it anyway. But when someone's grieving, take that extra couple of steps to just be more loving and more gentle.
Victoria Volk 35:00
I love that. Yes, absolutely. I had another thought, but it escaped me. Actually, I want to go back to your grieving story doesn't begin with your husband. When did first experience grief in your life,
Susan Ways 35:18
When my when I was young, I was 11 years old, and my father had a heart attack and passed away. And it was very sudden. And I won't say that it was unexpected for me as a child, but not unexpected for the people around him because he had a heart condition. And back then heart surgery was just as risky is weighing out the odds of maybe having a heart attack. So he died. And shortly thereafter, within the next year, my mom started to go out a lot. And she started to date. So she wasn't home. And I had have two older brothers, who are significantly older than me. And they were living their own life. And they were out and about doing their own thing. But within the next year, they started to, they moved out, both of them moved, and my mom was just almost she was gone. Every weekend, she was gone. Some nights during the week, she wasn't there. When I came home from school, she had always been a stay at home mom. So I went from this very typical, stay at home kind of a Brady Bunch ish family, and not in the blended sense, but in the sense that we were the stay at home mom and the dad that was home at six o'clock every night, and the family dinners and all of that to being alone. And from 12 years old, on the heels of losing my dad and there was no therapy back then you didn't you just got over it, you didn't talk about it. It's funny because the show Burn Notice, which I don't watch. But I know the premise. It's that's how I felt about my dad, it was like he was a part of our life. And then he just wasn't we didn't talk about him anymore. And so all of this loss and a lot of loss in a short period of time during a formative time in my life. And I ended up really raising myself in many cases. And my mom married a man when I was 14, who was just awful, and awful to me during a really important time grieving and a teenager. And so when you talk about ending up with self worth issues there, there was just this compounded loss that came into my world. And I shared with you in the meeting that we had that I admired my husband so much because he was a wonderful father. And I even shared that with him right before he died, how much I enjoyed watching him with our daughter, because he was such a great father and I missed out on that part of being a child having a father and I got to watch it through him. And then two months later, he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. And that was a punch in my soul.
Victoria Volk 37:48
And I we had talked earlier how my story is a little is parallel to yours, except I was a little bit younger, I was eight. But I what resonates with me and what what you shared when you got to witness your husband, and how he was with your daughter. That's how I feel with my husband. And every time my children, I have three kids every time each of them turned eight years old. I imagine them being me. And if their father passed away, you know, it's like that's what was going through my mind when they turned eight, like what my experience was, and reflecting on what because when I was eight people looked at me like I didn't know what was going on. In fact, someone even said that she doesn't know what's going on anyway. And that's burned into my brain over 30 years later, you know, that's one thing I remember. And which I remember everything. I saw my dad in the grave in his, you know, casket, it's, you know, I was there, you know, and I watched him the decline over two years as well, you know, you died of cancer. And so when I looked at my kids, it was like, would they understand? Absolutely, they would understand? Absolutely, they would know what grieving is when you didn't have that support. And I didn't have that support. I understand that. I understand that. And it changes you. Right. It absolutely changes you. I'm sure it changed to how you were there for your daughter, right?
Susan Ways 39:14
Absolutely. It absolutely did. And we talk about her dad a lot. And actually today, four years ago was the day that he ended up in the hospital and I he subsequently had a cancer diagnosis, but he ended up in the ER, this day four years ago. So this was when our journey ended. And I posted on Facebook this morning that I woke up living my best life and went to bed in a nightmare. And so it's she and I talk about a lot of that stuff and a lot of what her dad brought to her life and I really want to keep his memory alive and let her know that he's still a part of my life. He's still a part of her life and even though our lives are gonna move forward They're going to move forward with his fingerprints all over them.
Victoria Volk 40:05
I love how you said that. I love I said that I actually just had an interview yesterday with a gal who has remarried and has a family now. But she had a first husband who had passed away unexpectedly. And she said, you know, yes, I'm happy. Yes, I'm remarried. Yes, I have, you know, child and one on the way. But I still grieve the first husband, you know, and I think that's the thing that people really don't understand either is you can have joy, you can be happy, and you can still grieve, right? It's, you know, it's not, or it's and, you know, and they, we exist in, in that and space, it's both happy and joyful, and happy and sad. And, you know, sadness doesn't go away. But the distinction too, is that it's what you do with it, you know, do you let it be the captain of your life? Or do you turn it for something positive and good, and to create ripples, positive ripples around you, and like you, and there is no timeline to that to how long that takes. But we, we each make that choice for ourselves. But I can tell you, if, if I would have discovered or had the knowledge I had a year and a half ago, I wouldn't have spent 10 years of you know, my 20s and 30s, feeling how I was feeling, you know, it almost then I have grief around. If only I could have changed my life back then if only I would have known this back then if only if only if only, you know, and that's just more grief. And that just adds to my suffering. So I've had to learn to release that and give myself that compassion, as I'm sure you have over the years as well just like, have that compassion for yourself. You know, it's it's as much as to give it to other people, but it's often hardest to give it to ourselves.
Susan Ways 42:02
Right? It is, I think that is the absolute hardest because we are our own worst critic. And I love somebody had said once, if someone else said the stuff to you that you say to yourself in your head, would you be friends with them? And I think about that all the time, because I will stop myself now and be like, no, I would not tolerate that from anyone else. And I'm not going to do it to myself.
Victoria Volk 42:27
Exactly. Or would you tell it say that to a child, you know, and we all carry our own our inner child within us, you know, all the lessons and everything and learning and conditioning and all of that that we've grown up with? What is one tip that you would give another hurting heart today?
Susan Ways 42:47
To know that things will get better. And that doesn't mean that the grief will go away. But the windows become further apart. And I still I'm coming up on three years now. And I still have bad days. And there might be two bad days in a row. But I know they're just days. And I know that a good day is behind that. And a lot of days are just days. But there's some days that are bad. There's some days that are great. And I think just knowing that there is hope that there is a path forward, that there's a lot of people out there that care and find them, surround yourself with them. And just make that your inner circle. And if it doesn't feel good, let go of it. That's a lot more than one tip. Sorry.
Victoria Volk 43:33
Well, amen. No. Amen. I love that. So if people want to reach out to you, where's the best place they can do that?
Susan Ways 43:43
They can, depending on what it is that they're looking for. I have the tendrils of grief website, which is www.tendrilsofgrief.com. And all the podcasts are listed there. And there's a forum to connect with me there. They can email me at susan_ways@msn.com. And that's really the best way to reach me if you want to talk about grieving or the podcast.
Victoria Volk 44:10
Perfect. And I'll put those that information also on the show notes. But I thank you Susan, is there anything else you want to add or share today?
Susan Ways 44:19
No I think covered a lot today. So this was really wonderful. Thank you for what you're doing. I think it's really I think what you do at the grief recovery Institute, refreshing approach to counseling and to moving forward with grief. And it is about recovery. It's not just about talking about your feelings and sitting in your feelings. It's really about finding that path forward. And I think it's just really wonderful that there's people out there who get that and who are providing that channel for grievers. So as I said on my pod podcast when you were on I hope people look you up and plug into that
Victoria Volk 44:53
And likewise I love that you bring on people of different areas like this. Social media thing. I mean, that's a great avenue that I wouldn't have thought of you know that. But it's important. Like that's what we ingest every day, right social media and it all impacts us. He does. Yeah, it's important. Well, thank you so much, Susan for being here. I look forward to actually hearing our episode as well on tendrils of grief. Tune in next week for another podcast. Until then, everyone, take care much love.