Patsy is my first guest interview on the podcast. She is also the first online, 1-on-1 participant to go through the newly developed online version of The Grief Recovery Method® program. The online, GRM program is a 7-week action-based proven method for helping grievers navigate and process a loss of any kind.
In this episode, Patsy shares her grieving voice around her divorce, being a caregiver to her dying father, and closing a business. And, how resiliency found her during those two years of deep grief.
Patsy also shares her voice about her search for alignment and discovery of the gifts grief brought into her life. Through her story, she shares what was helpful to her as she was knee-deep in the grief experiences and experiencing a lot of change and transition at one time.
We also scratch the surface of how we live is how we die and the resistance grievers, as well as those dying, have around death (or the very thought of it).
Be a fly on the wall of our very deep conversation and, if Patsy's story resonates with you or, you wish to follow her journey of creation, self-discovery, and alignment, you can find her at the following:
@andcelebrate on Instagram or her website at www.andcelebrate.com
RESOURCES:
One-on-One, Online Grief Recovery Support
______
If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, there are free resources available HERE.
If you'd like to share your grieving voice on the show or want to share your thoughts about an episode, please send an email to victoria@theunleashedheart.com.
Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.
______
WAYS TO SUPPORT THE SHOW:
This episode is sponsored by Do Grief Differently™️, my twelve-week, one-on-one, in-person/online program for grievers who have suffered any type of loss to feel better. Click here to learn new tools, grief education, and the only evidence-based method for moving beyond the pain of grief.
Would you like to join the mission of Grieving Voices in normalizing grief and supporting hurting hearts everywhere? Become a supporter of the show HERE.
Patsy is my first guest interview on the podcast. She is also the first online, 1-on-1 participant to go through the newly developed online version of The Grief Recovery Method® program. The online, GRM program is a 7-week action-based proven method for helping grievers navigate and process a loss of any kind.
In this episode, Patsy shares her grieving voice around her divorce, being a caregiver to her dying father, and closing a business. And, how resiliency found her during those two years of deep grief.
Patsy also shares her voice about her search for alignment and discovery of the gifts grief brought into her life. Through her story, she shares what was helpful to her as she was knee-deep in the grief experiences and experiencing a lot of change and transition at one time.
We also scratch the surface of how we live is how we die and the resistance grievers, as well as those dying, have around death (or the very thought of it).
Be a fly on the wall of our very deep conversation and, if Patsy's story resonates with you or, you wish to follow her journey of creation, self-discovery, and alignment, you can find her at the following:
@andcelebrate on Instagram or her website at www.andcelebrate.com
RESOURCES:
One-on-One, Online Grief Recovery Support
______
If you or anyone you know is struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, there are free resources available HERE.
If you'd like to share your grieving voice on the show or want to share your thoughts about an episode, please send an email to victoria@theunleashedheart.com.
Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.
______
WAYS TO SUPPORT THE SHOW:
This episode is sponsored by Do Grief Differently™️, my twelve-week, one-on-one, in-person/online program for grievers who have suffered any type of loss to feel better. Click here to learn new tools, grief education, and the only evidence-based method for moving beyond the pain of grief.
Would you like to join the mission of Grieving Voices in normalizing grief and supporting hurting hearts everywhere? Become a supporter of the show HERE.
Victoria Volk 0:08
This is Victoria of theunleashedheart.com and you're listening to grieving voices, a podcast for hurting hearts who desire to be heard. Or anyone who wants to learn how to better support loved ones experiencing loss. As a 30 plus year griever and advanced grief recovery methods specialist, I know how badly the conversation around grief needs to change. Through this podcast, I aim to educate gravers and non gravers alike, spread hope and inspire compassion toward those hurting. Lastly, by providing my heart with the ears and this platform, grievers had the opportunity to share their wisdom and stories of loss and resiliency. How about we talk about grief, like we talked about the weather. Let's get started. So today on the podcast is my first interview. And I am so pleased to have Patsy join me today to share her grieving voice and her grieving story. So thank you so much for being my first Patsy on here. And
Patsy 1:18
I am honored Victoria. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Victoria Volk 1:22
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We kind of were chatting earlier about the different grief scenarios that you've experienced in your life. We're just gonna dive right in.
Patsy 1:35
I love it. Let's go. So wait.
Victoria Volk 1:39
First of all, tell us when your grieving story first really began for you?
Patsy 1:49
Yeah, well. So I would say the the intensity of the grief I've experienced, really has been in the last couple of years. So when I was younger, it's not. So when I prior to meeting you Victoria, it really I would have only associated the term grief with a loss like the death loss. Probably like in my younger years, I really had sort of this idealistic upbringing. And I did not experience a whole heck of a lot of adversity in an intense way. Like, yes, we all experienced change. And there were a lot of mini moments as I reflect back now that I would now label as grief. Like I was experiencing grief at the time, but I didn't know it. And my grandfather, my mom, my mom's dad passed away when I was a junior in high school. And I was very close to him. I had lost my dad's dad had passed when I was just five years old. And we didn't spend a lot of time with them on a yearly basis, it was more of like a yearly annual visit, to see all my dad's family and cousins and that sort of thing. So I didn't have a very strong relationship with that grant, my paternal grandfather. And I was five so didn't fully acts like I remember, I remember experiencing my parents grief around that are sort of questioning like, what is this emotion? What does this energy didn't have the language for it then but this new energy that was sort of present in our home during that loss, and my parents had gone away to, to see him in his final days, really, what's what I later learned, right, but I didn't really have that awareness at the time. And so then I would say my first really significant loss was my, the definition of grief, as relating to death was my grandfather who passed when I was a junior in high school. And then now I'm 35 years old. And in the last few years, I've experienced just this tremendous flood of loss and change. And really, it started learning about a high school classmate who had passed unexpectedly in his sleep, but 33 years old, from a heart attack, and he was the type of person who just made you feel like he's known you forever just had an amazing outlook on life, really was creating a life that he loved and living a life that he loved and had this energy about him even back then that made you feel really seen and heard and celebrated. And I admired him and even though I hadn't seen him in many years, hearing about that loss really struck something in me and so started actually, like, really making me question, you know, if I weren't to wake up tomorrow, would I be satisfied with the life I'm living? Would I would I, you know, go to the other side or whatever that maybe I'm feeling Like really pleased with how I've, I've been living a month later, we received no notice that my dad was diagnosed with cancer. And it was a month in waiting that we then learned it was stage four, it was terminal had metastasized to all these other organs. And he was given about a year to live. And so in that, I said, that's where like death really entered the room, like made its presence known. And I continued that line of self questioning. So death really helped me really reevaluate how I was living. And in that, it was sort of like this, you know, you pull the string of the sweater in the hole. I, that led to a series of conversations with my then husband, that illuminated, you know, some real, we had some real deep, honest conversations about the reality of our marriage, and how we just wanted different things in life. And we weren't actively creating a life together, we were still sort of, we're living in the same house, you know, and have had fun together. But there wasn't a true, like, deep, solid foundation to build a life upon together. And death really invited us to look at that and make some decisions about how we wanted to move forward. And ultimately, we decided to separate so then there was change and loss in that.
And as my dad, health started to decline over that course of the year, I, again, like in my change of moving house and reevaluate, and getting back on my feet and all this that me other, it helped me to reevaluate my business and how that was running. And I it became really clear that I was, I was not setting myself up for this sustainable growth, I was feeling burnt out the sort of vision of the heart of it all wasn't matching the execution of it, I had sort of backed myself into this corner, and I was like, This isn't even what I want. So that evolved, and, like I had two businesses and sort of ran for, what would I say, merged the one with the other, add two business partners that I was working with. And that was an amazing transition at the time. And I felt very supported in that. And then flash for my dad ended up passing in June of last year. And, and so there was this whole new, just like, way of being on my own, because at that point, I was no longer living with my ex, like, there was so much motion and movement and change throughout all of that. I just kept putting one foot in front of the other. And then flash forward to this the start of this year, and experiencing this global pandemic that we're all in and reevaluating. Again, where does you know, how do I want to align my values with my business and my life and what I'm creating, and that second business, we made a decision to sunset. And so like, I don't know how to say that in a more succinct way. But there's been a heck of a lot of grief in the last year, a year and a half. And I've been doing a lot of unraveling that.
Victoria Volk 8:41
Thank you for sharing all of that. I want to go back first to to actually your first loss as a child. Um, you know, that's 10 we that's where we often need to start really when we start processing loss because grief is cumulative, and it's cumulatively negative. And so sure, as a child, when you last had that loss as a five year old, I'm just curious and for our listeners as well, because we often don't make that connection of what we are allowed or not allowed to express around grief. How did your parents seem to view your put your relationship with that grandfather? And did they address how maybe you were possibly grieving?
Patsy 9:36
No, I wouldn't say that. I don't think they were really conscious of it. And that's where there's sort of this like fogginess for me around that loss. Like I don't, I don't really remember processing only being more aware of what their emotions were, and feeling like I must be present for that or not ask any questions or be too inquisitive about it. It was sort of it was shared. I witnessed my dad cry. That was a first for sure. Um, he was not very emotional. He was an emotional guy, but he hit it. You know what I mean? He, he never expressed his emotions openly. And I guess I would describe that now as just sort of like, Can I was confused more than anything. There wasn't a conversation really even about death, or? I mean, they explained what it is. But I don't think there was active, continual conversations about it.
Victoria Volk 10:36
I think we can all agree that when there is, like heavy grief within a household within a home, that it creates ripples, right? Oh, we can agree. Oh, right?
Patsy 10:49
1,000%. Yeah.
Victoria Volk 10:50
So yeah, as a witness to grief as a young child. Even just the idea of not having the language around that or be given the language or be totally in clusion? Yeah. Oh, gosh, yeah. Of what your parents themselves were feeling
Patsy 11:12
We're going through or explaining, oh, and like, I had no history of my dad's relationship with his dad either, right? I'm, like I, I only know of him when I see him when I go to visit, like there. If you think about it now to my own brain at that moment in time, there was really no context or, yeah, that inclusion piece would have been so helpful.
Victoria Volk 11:36
I'm curious too like, in the years that followed, maybe 567 years that followed after that, was it a topic that was ever discussed? Like, was there
Patsy 11:46
I honestly don't remember it being discussed or even an honoring of him, right, okay. Like I feel more of a connection to the honoring. Now, granted, I was older, I was a junior in high school, and my second grandfather passed away. And I was much closer to him, you know, just because we lived next door to him. But there was more of a process around the honoring, I do not remember attending, I guess I didn't, I didn't attend my paternal grandfather's funeral, like I had no, I had, I had no idea of what even sort of ritual can or you know, honoring could have could happen around a death around a loss like that. Until, you know, you hear about it, you watch it on the movie you consume in other ways people around you have deaths or losses and things that you're exposed to, but hadn't experienced yourself. Like the first funeral, I think I attended was probably around the same timeframe that I lost my maternal grandfather.
Victoria Volk 12:44
So I'm curious when you look in hindsight, yeah. The contrast between that first loss as a child, young child do where you're a junior in high school, was there a change? Or was there more of a communication with how you were feeling? Yes, later in life, as opposed to waiting for a child?
Patsy 13:06
Definitely, definitely. Um, and I remember the Minister of our church came over, and we had like a family meeting, it was definitely inclusive. So when they talked about how they were going to present what they were going to do, what kind of the service were they going to have, all of that was the whole family was involved. And she and she really led that meeting. So I grateful to her for that. I don't think she realizes, till this moment, I probably hadn't even put it all together. But she, she helped to almost emulate how those conversations can go, right? Because she was leading it. And she asked each individual grandchild, like, what was your What would you like to call out in memory of around your grandfather? What's a specific memory you want to share? Or, you know, that kind of thing, which was really nice. And I think then, right, the cumulation of that experience, sort of it just it the other first experience feels foggy, because I had a new refreshed experience of loss of my grandfather. And in the honoring because we gathered so frequently as a family. There was more of an honoring around each first of that first year, right? So it was like, his birthday is like our gathering as a family of like, Oh, this is the first time he won't be here with us for Thanksgiving, or he won't be here with us for Christmas, or there was more of just like a remembrance and honoring of him. throughout those family gatherings, which I didn't experience in the lot like in my first loss.
Victoria Volk 14:40
Do you think? I mean, when looking back now to do you think that there was a difference in relationship that may have influenced how one death was handled versus the other?
Patsy 14:54
In some ways, yes. But I Yeah, I do. It wasn't that we weren't close with our, you know, my dad's side of the family, it was just a proximity thing for me like they were in New Jersey, we were in Maine. So it was like less frequent that we were seeing them I wouldn't, I wouldn't be I wouldn't describe it as like, feeling less loved by them or anything like that we always had just a blast when we were all together. But I think because I was in my brother was really like a brand new baby pretty much when that loss happened. I don't know if it was because of my age that they just thought, well, like we're protecting her. But I don't I feel like that would have been such an awesome learning opportunity to talk about death.
Victoria Volk 15:39
Right. And that's the that's kind of why I'm really kind of drilling this point. And I love it the childhood experience because we we learn 75% of how not First, we will process grief and learn about grief and how we'll deal with it for the rest of our life by before we're age seven or eight. By the time we're age eight. Yep. And so those first years are the most influential on us in terms of how we process our feelings, or don't
Patsy 16:15
So there wasn'ta whole heck of a lot of processing. Right, right. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I think I thought I kind of felt it felt foreign, it felt it didn't feel it obviously didn't feel like safe to inquire about, it felt a little scared because of the unknown of it. It was like they they went away for four or five days came back. And then I remember being like Papa darp passed away. Like, I don't think I even knew he was sick. Hmm. You know, because our, again, our inter now we talk about our family and other updates all the time. And I have my own relationships with my aunts and uncles, my dad's siblings, and my cousins and all of that. But like, there was never I don't remember a conversation about because they were probably talking about it when I went to bed or whatever. Like I don't remember even over hearing like Papa DARPA's sick. And this, you know, like there was no, there was no context or heads up, like this is a possibility, you know, or even when they were leaving, I didn't know why they left.
Victoria Volk 17:24
Which and that's this isn't unusual. No. And so this is where this educational piece comes in. For you, parents who are listening, who have a child who has gone through or is going through a grieving experience. This is why it's so important that we have an awareness around that. Children grieve, too. And it's just as important to tell the emotional truth about yourself to your child, so that you emulate that example of what it means to share our emotional truth, and getting the conversation going around what that child may be feeling. Because what is not a big deal to us adults, like we the child can be making the biggest deal about something and to us, it's like what is the big deal? Like, right, you know, and to the child. It's like, it's not even usually about the thing we think it's about No, right? You know, for example, there's two, there's a story I heard there was a child whose grandpa father had passed away, but they would plant flowers every year. And every year, they would watch these flowers bloom. And the grandfather passed away. After they had planted flowers, when he passed away before they saw them bloom. And the house was sold. And this child was so upset that he wasn't going to see their flowers bloom. But they didn't you know, that nobody made the connection that, you know, what's the big deal with the flowers? And it was that the grandfather said, we will see these bloom Bloom? Yeah, like it was their shared experience. Yeah, of course, once the Koreans had this awareness about it, and discuss. Right, right, and how can we address this? how can how can we help you? And they realized, well dig up the flowers. Yeah, yeah. Bring them to our ring so you can learn
Patsy 19:29
New home and plant them? Yeah, yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. But it's true and and then as a child, if you don't have the language for it, you can see how quickly and easily that gets brushed under the rug doesn't get addressed. Again, you know, can come up like you said, I love the way you phrase like it's cumulative. And if you're not aware of what's under the surface, you know, that can really impact. I mean,
Victoria Volk 19:55
What we don't see what we don't see and what we sweep to the side Yep, within us, right? I want to make a point to and bring up. You talked about alignment and, you know, emotional truth. And how you had this awareness around you weren't really living in alignment. Yeah, so grief kind of was that door that opened that awareness to you, right? It did, it really did.
Patsy 20:26
Which is fascinating to me, because I had been actively working toward building a life of alignment for years, a good number of years. But, you know, I know, I feel like if I were to put the word death out there, it's often like, associated with heaviness, right, there's like, I think society there is a, like a negative connotation about it. And that could just be my own perception, but there's a feeling around it that it's sort of this this thing that like, we don't talk about, and it's shocking to us when it arrives and it's like it's just this dance of strangeness around
Victoria Volk 21:11
We're immortal. We're immortal.
Patsy 21:15
And the thing that the only effing guarantee that we have in the human experience is death like that that's the one guarantee and it is shocking to me that like we forget that instantly like we have to remind ourselves of it minute to minute sort of thing right and but what's so cool about it is that it is this extreme clarifier like when you take any decision you have to make and put that up against like death like time right this is another thing so that is associated with time How much time do you have I mean, the conversation I could go on too we could have a whole podcast episode about time and waiting like when you are diagnosed with something How much time do you have you know, how is it going to happen when is it going to happen Death is inevitable it's been it has been you know, stated galvanized ballots, you have only an you know, a finite amount of time left are we going to use your time and so that sort of invitation to evaluate that really clicked everything into place for me and I know I mean, our journeys here are constantly evolving, we're learning we're growing right? But that was no doubt a catalyst for all the other change I saw in the last year and a half. And now if I think back I can easily get my body to that place of like, tension that I felt and misalignment that I was living and that just like low level thing that it's like a feeling it's intangible it's just this low level hum I guess it's not quite right. But I didn't have enough data to even know what to change until death entered the room and it's amazing to me how because I've had that experience and come through it that continues to be a filter for me when I'm making even small decisions
Really
because I guess for me the alignment factor if I'm living in alignment with with my truth then at the end of the day no matter when I go like I can feel that level of satisfaction I started questioning like yes there's so much more things I want to do here so much more I want to experience in this lifetime so much more I want to create and just like fully live I think that was another thing like there was this energy within my relationship I would have described it as fine a friend of mine and I were talking about this the other night and I was like what fine isn't living to me like five minutes Fine fine is monotone fine is going through the motions. It's not experiencing the highs and lows of life like truly embracing them like sort of what can I learn from them all of those things. I was doing that in my own way but within the context of my marriage within my partnership it was there it fell flat I felt flat and I'm like whatever happens on the other side of whenever we die like that's a whole nother topic too. But if I get to that place like I want to feel like I really like enjoyed this lifetime that I experienced it
Victoria Volk 24:46
Fine doesn't equal fun right now, and in grief recovery. What do we say about fine its feelings inside not it's not expressed. And what my dear listeners Miss Patsy has actually gone through the grief recovery method with me. We'll get to that. Yeah, we'll speak to that in a little bit. But I want to also give you the opportunity to share a little bit about how the transition like how did you get from? Okay, well, death came in the room. Oh my gosh, I have all this awareness about how misaligned I feel. Yeah. Like what needs to change in my life. And that transition. Can you speak to that transition a little bit? And how in terms of the role that grief may have played in Yeah, how you process that? How you made it, okay with yourself, like how, you know, because it takes courage. It takes courage to Yeah, open the door, first of all, and not shot it.
Patsy 25:55
Totally the door. It was open. And I yeah, that's such a great way to continue that analogy. It's true, I think.
Victoria Volk 26:04
Do you feel like because like, for me, it was like one more loss that like, took me over the edge, like, Oh, my gosh, I'm not okay. Like, it's been over 30 years, and I've had a lot of loss in between but this next loss like this, did it like this? Is it this is the cherry on top? Did you have that experience where it was like, Okay, this is it like?
Patsy 26:25
Well, I think, I think when my friend passed what I learned if my friends passing, that was like the knock on the door, and then when the diagnosis when my dad's diagnosis came through, that just like bursts the door right open. And then death was standing there in a room for a year. And that's a whole nother like, just talking about transition. When he when he finally passed, there was a relief. And I think this is another thing that people probably I mean, I struggled with too, because because his decline has helped decline was so slow, and just really, really hard to witness, really hard to witness. Toward the end, I was literally praying for it to be over. Like for him, for us, for everyone who was involved, like, because it was getting to that point of just like, a piece has to come soon. Like this is this is really challenging, you know. And so inside of that, like energy, I was also processing change. And in some ways it was my life had been up ended. And part of that was my choice, right. And I had temporarily moved, it was like I was taking, I was only taking one step forward with each new like phase. So I moved out into my friend's really tiny bedroom, which is basically an oversized closet, I had enough room for a single bed and like a few of my things. And then I moved apart like I moved my office, which was at my home into a little shared workspace. It felt like the transitions and change just never never stopped for that concentrated period of time. How did I meander and like navigate them? I really allowed myself to feel throughout all of it. I'm not really sure. I think Sorry, it's taken me a long time to answer this question. But I feel like, as I'm reflecting on this, knowing my dad was gonna pass it, it created this level of important like things that really matter. Like the A brings the things that really matter to the surface, right. And so standing in my truth and having these courageous conversations with my then husband, getting through that alone, I almost like built my strength in that first phase. And so I was like, if I can do that I can do anything, I have to move again, no big deal, I have to change my office space, no big deal. I have to you know, and so it's almost it's interesting to that, that as we talk about grief cumulating that like strength was cumulating. For me, my resilience was cumulating. And so then when my dad was declining, and I was I was really his primary caregiver for a number of months. And we had help from hospice and then ultimately toward the end we had another nurse come in to relieve us from nights and my brother was very present and all of that my mom was very present and all of that too. And his his family but because of the way my schedule worked within the I had created my own business I was able to be present frequently for that extended period of time whereas everybody else's work schedules were, you know, anyway, being in that actually helped Like all the other transitions actually help staying present. And enough, right there wasn't that weren't days of frustration or just like completely, like burnout was imminent, I can feel it coming, I knew that there was going to be an end, that that phase was temporary. And I did my best within that phase to find something to be grateful for every day, even if it was a small thing. And to kind of like stay anchored and hope and, and remind myself that there's, I really believe that like, life is working out for us, not to us if we're present to it and engaging with it. And so there was there was meant to be healing, I was meant to be that person, I didn't aspire to be that person, I never dreamt that I would have that rule. Like, it's not even one I wanted. But I took it on. And it actually was really beautiful. In terms of like, healing my relationship with my dad, and being able to be in a place of being that caregiver and provider that he always took. So, you know, in pride growing up, does that answer your question? Or did I go on a very long tangent?
Victoria Volk 31:16
No, that's great. It actually brought to light. Another thing that I want to bring attention to, for my readers or listeners, readers, listeners, is that you had this awareness i what i hear you saying is that you had an awareness that you can do hard things. Yeah. You know, I can do hard things. Yeah, this is going to be hard. You made it through it, you can use it. And what does that do for us? that builds our confidence, right?
Patsy 31:49
It does totally, I think right now, yeah, like, little things happen. And that's interesting to God, we can talk about this for a long time. But like, when you are in that space, right, where you're, you're navigating through the hard things, your world becomes really narrow. Like the things I cared about before I truly, I don't care about now. Like in a lot of ways if I had a false caring for it, because I thought I should care about it. Because somebody somebody else's view influenced, like my caring for the thing. Now I'm just like, it's so clear to me, like where I stand, like, where the line is drawn. And so which has been a really awesome power tool now, like, inner power thing, as I'm re you know, rebuilding my life, in which direction I want to go. And I love that you called attention to that because it builds confidence, it builds clarity. And just this this like, inner knowing that no matter what the heck comes down the pipe, which I know that's life, life is gonna life. I'm just gonna, like there's gonna be more hard things. That's no question. But I I'm living, knowing that's inevitable, but enjoying the ride. Like actively seeking out the joy inside of that to have I think really helped. The density, like, alleviate the density that I was feeling in it, because that that was, like ever present. You know, I like reflect on it back now. And I can I can immediately get that tightness in my stomach. So I don't think I knew sorry, I just I don't think I knew that I was resilient. Prior to that.
Victoria Volk 33:45
You found it within yourself. In the process. Yeah, I would agree the same for myself. Yeah, grief is funny like that, huh? We get these we get these unexpected. And I can hear that I can just see the eyes roll. You know, the gifts. I knew. I knew. Like, okay, I can see the eyes rolling, you know, but really, truly I'm telling you this I'm over 30 years, over 30 years. Yeah, I've grieved losses and trauma in my life. And to be able to not be one of those people rolling my eyes. Like, it is like I can say now I am on the other side. Alright, grief, like it's no longer in the driver's seat of my life. And that's what I ultimately hear in your message as well as that it's not in the driver's seat anymore. That suckers in the back in the trunk locked. Locked in the trunk, but released. Actually, you know, it's a beautiful way Put it. I would say I've seen it in the car. It's not even in the car.
Patsy 35:04
It is it is released as like it's changed form. Yes. Right. I feel. I feel like it's changed form and it's definitely lost. It's Um
Victoria Volk 35:16
It's all in change to you. Yeah. Yeah. There you have it. Yes. And that's why I'm the unleashed heart. It's like, I was leashed, you know, yes. leashed to this thing.
Patsy 35:33
Absolutely, absolutely. And I feel like living right. So my philosophy on life, is to live on leash. That's why we have such alignment and like kinship and immediate friendship and resonance with each other, because you can feel free even within constraints. And I think that was sort of my practice to in that space of being the caregiver for my dad was like, how can I access even a moment or a minute of freedom inside this experience, and, and the cool part of that was, you know, there were days, like I said, that I was frustrated that I was praying for it to be a different outcome than it was. And at some point, in that journey, I surrendered, I released the expectation of how long it would take, I surrendered to the like, I accepted, like, accepted that this is the journey, like this is the this is the path I'm on and shifted my energy around that. And there was release and relief in the release of that, and he hadn't passed yet. So before he passed, there was some sort of shift in my energy around it, too.
Victoria Volk 36:46
Would you say that you changed how you perceived the situation? Like your perception, like you allowed yourself to be open to a new perspective? Totally what was happening? Totally. Yep, I too, like, you know, I was eight when my dad passed away, but he survived like he was he hung on for two years. It's amazing. And he was a lot of he was a stage for it diagnosis. So too, it's, it's, I could actually I want to go on a whole nother episode on that on just like, how we, especially if we have not allowed ourselves to process grief, how that impacts the transition for someone who is dying. Oh, my guy, like,
Patsy 37:33
Right guy. I don't even think of that. But that's so true.
Victoria Volk 37:33
Right? like how I read a story just recently, and I'm not going to get too far into this because this is a whole nother This is a whole episode all by itself, that I want to give it justice to, but it really just opened my eyes to, to what I read, it was talking about how, for example, let's just say I'm in a room because I actually used to do hospice care, home health and hospice. Which isn't a surprise to me, because I've, I have a really long relationship with death in my life. So it was no surprise that I you know, I worked in a nursing home as a certified nursing assistant, I've been around death, all my life. So what I didn't really consider though, was how, as we are grieving, and if we have not allowed ourselves to process what we're feeling and were shut off emotionally from what is the reality of what is happening, like our loved one is transitioning our loved one is actively dying. And working through that process. If we How do it's like, I'm just having this thought, like, how does that impact the person who is passing? Like, how does how does our resistance to them pass? Yeah
Yeah, impacting them? Like, is that why they're hanging on? Yeah, is that's a great point, you know,
Patsy 39:00
Great, great, great point. And that was a whole other thing too. Resistance to passing. So my dad definitely held that resistance to passing I witnessed his his fear around this the fear, right, the fear around it. And so it was interesting, a very interesting exercise for me and and a test of faith as well. Because yes, it's bringing up my own stuff, witnessing him reached this point, right of his life, but also witnessing his his journey of acceptance to this is what's inevitable, right and so there, there was a strong resistance. Now it's interesting, I wouldn't say he was resistant in the sense that like he's gonna suck the rest of the life out of the time. He has here kind of thing like, charge for Word and, quote, live the way I was describing before. But it was like he didn't want to move, because he was afraid it was gonna happen. And so it was like the opposite end of the spectrum.
Victoria Volk 40:12
And can you imagine the grief then the one who is transitioning is feeling because they cannot emotionally express their fear. They can't emotionally express what they're experiencing and feeling. Because the people in the room are so closed off and resistant to what is happening. Like, we don't think about how our energy that we bring to the room in a situation like that impacts the person who's actually trying to transition. And I've just like, I just had like this total. Yeah, I I'm
Patsy 40:50
So like, full full body goosebumps on that one, for sure.
Victoria Volk 40:54
I'm so digging into this topic more, because I think it's so important, like when I think about the whole premise of this podcast is to give Grievers the opportunity to share their grieving story, right, their grieving voice. Someone who's already past obviously can't, doesn't have that opportunity. But I feel like there's a part of me that needs to be a voice for someone who's transitioning because I've seen it so many times. And because families that are and
Patsy 41:22
you're sorry, Yeah, go ahead.
Victoria Volk 41:25
You know, hearing is one of is the last sense to go. And I just recall, being in rooms, where the family is talking, like they're not there. That's like, I can hear you. They can hear you. You know, and so it's it's actually bringing to attention. What can I do as a loved one who's watching my loved one transition? What can I do to mainly hat? Okay.
Patsy 41:57
Yes, I, I was like, seeking those resources in that time. I really was. And I feel like I was conscious of his fear. And so I, I did my best to normalize the process, even though I'd never witnessed it before. And to just sit there and be present with him. And you know, it's, it's every relationship is different to right. And, and every death experience is different. And it was it was just this really, as sad and hard. And like, challenging as it was, it was actually it was, it was there were some really beautiful moments too, because I hadn't spent that much time with him. I mean, maybe ever, in that way, like growing up as a kid, like, he's present. He's there, but he was working. And he was, you know, it wasn't like you're, you're sitting with each other for hours at a time. For an inevitable like, for it. Um, we don't know how long, right? So it was just this really interesting shift. It was deep, like an intimate experience, you know? And in some ways, I feel like I yeah, I was there to reassure him that it would be okay, even though I don't frickin know, I had faith that it's gonna be okay. That it would be lighter than what he was experiencing in that moment. You know?
Victoria Volk 43:34
And when you look back too that time, it's Do you feel like, what a blessing it was that you allowed yourself to have those conversations that you may not have had otherwise? Or? It doesn't. I mean, when we do that, it helps to bring emotional completion to certain things, you know, they can, they can transition and, you know, go on to the next life I, you know, whatever you believe, but, and that's another topic in and of itself to
Patsy 44:07
A lot of topics out of this conversation. No, I completely agree. Um, the other thing that eye has stuck with me, and I don't know if you'd heard this in your time as a hospice care, nurse, or just in your experience of life and death. One of the nurses said to me, and this was really funny and fitting, and it actually this probably was the thing that helped me reach that place of acceptance a little bit. She said, you know, in my experience, the way you've lived, your life, is the way you're gonna die. Or is the way you'll pass essentially. So your relationship to life is your relationship to death and how you pass and so for those who, you know, were stubborn, resistance to resistant to change, that sort of thing. It's usually a longer, more stubborn drawn out process. For those who are really like go with the flow open to life open to all of these things. It generally happens more quickly and I just burst out laughing because that was my dad's personality he was completely resistant to change. He lived a lot of his life, you know, in that space of, right like, I like there was of a general cautiousness about him. He didn't take a heck of a lot of risks. You know, he was very like comfortable in his small little life. That is not to say don't say that to diminish it. Right. But there was a level of comfort he did not stray too far out of his lifetime. And so the fact that I mean hospice we chose the hospice he chose the hospice route in January and he didn't pass until the middle of late June.
Victoria Volk 46:01
That's fascinating. It is fast. I wholeheartedly agree with that nurse to I can I can just think of certain relationships of people passing and things and and yeah, I would have
Patsy 46:16
an yeah interesting that
Victoria Volk 46:18
I think it's actually to like I think we live in fear of life itself. Like we're fearful beings, anyway, like fear is the driver of our DeSoto lanes. And but I think it is because I think fears a driver, because we have not, we have this emotional dis ease within us that we kind of we've spoken about this before. But it closes us off to our to living like grief puts a veil of our perception of life. And early eventual, and we can't see we just can't we don't see the world as it is we see it, either. How we want it to be or how it was how it was or how we wish it was we wish it was right grief is the loss of hopes dreams and expectations and anything we wish it would have been different better or more we get so hung up emotionally on on those Zoo experiences that cause those feelings. We do that maybe they fearful Yeah.
Patsy 47:34
So true. And even in that it's so interesting, you bring that up too. And I think for me, again, it was sort of illuminating and reaffirming to embrace life and and enjoy it and like truly live it in the witnessing of my dad's passing and being with him. And all that time. And there were moments where he would reflect back on something. And I would have these moments where I was like, you're still holding on to that, like, so far from my memory, you know, and just I can't even think of a good example at the moment, but several occasions where I had that awareness where I was like, wow, that has been building and we talked about energy right and I really believe it like if we can feel our feelings and process and utilize the the framework that you have exposed me to which I'm so so grateful for, to work through that to unhinge those hang ups that we have because it gets stuck. Like if I sort of look back in retrospect and sort of what I know of his life and his upbringing and those conditioning and and where that fear got hung up in his life and kind of kept him in place for a long time. No wonder, you know that there was this energetic build up there at that lead to dis ease. You know, say this is fascinating.
Victoria Volk 49:01
This is a perfect transition to bring up then the grief recovery work and the grief recovery method that you had experienced because I feel like for me, I know it connected. All of the dots. So many. So many. So yeah, can you speak to your experience now for the listeners? Patsy went through the seven week grief recovery method online one on one with me. And we recently finished up and so yeah, I couldn't think of a better guess than someone who's gone through one have gone through the method with me. So can you speak to your experience?
Patsy 49:49
Oh gosh, yes. And I'm so grateful you've asked me to be on because I want the whole world to know about this resource that I known you speak of first. long as I've known you, and I've been very intrigued by it, and, and then obviously moving through all that I moved through in terms of change and transition in the last couple years, it was it is the perfect tool for continuing to process and re release really, so much residual, emotional. I want to I don't even have a word for it, you see me using my hands, energy energy in your day. And I shared with you at the beginning that like I knew this would be beneficial, I was open to the process. But I also wasn't feeling in my day to day life that I was weighed down to the point of not living, right. Like I didn't feel like I was stuck in grief per se when we started this process. But let me tell you, what this process has done is like taken that really it's elevated the relief and provided just this new layer of peace, I didn't even realize I need it. Like I knew I needed it, I knew it was gonna be beneficial, but I didn't recognize like really truly how beneficial it would be. And part of the process is yes, acknowledging death, but really reorienting our definition of grief itself, which is loss and change right of expectations, you just went through it so beautifully. And it helped me see just how much change I've gone through in my lifetime not just concentrated to the last few years, but really helped me provide a perspective and reach a new sense of compassion within myself for all that I enjoyed and was never labeling as grief. And so that was amazing because it was like, Oh, this residual energy as at has been taking up space and excited me all this time and I didn't even really realize it and I'm somebody who has been actively seeking and putting myself in the way of self development work for a long time now like over a decade probably being active in that space of awareness and unpacking and and unbecoming as our mutual friend talks about. And so I found this so beneficial not only for to kind of unpack the last couple of years, specific relationships and knowing that now this framework can be used forevermore, that is like excited me beyond measure. And the work that I didn't expect actually, well I had a little bit of an inkling because we've you know, we're friends, we've been talking about it, but the work around grief within relationships that are still present today. So with the living relationships with the living, that was a game changer has been a game changer. And I think prior to meeting you, I would have guessed that the work would have been done around relationships with people who have passed
Victoria Volk 53:12
Well, and we often don't see what we're feeling with real in terms of our and when we think about our relationships with the living we often don't think about what we're experiencing as as great as that right? But again, the definition of grief recovery Institute defines grief is the loss of hopes, dreams and expectations and anything we wish would have been different better or more or would be different better or more. And so that's where like with the living when you have this like Aha, like okay, well they're never going to change sometimes especially with family we can't choose who our family is. But it is going through this process and doing this work. I know for me, I was able to then look at that relationship with a new perspective. Totally compassion
Patsy 54:08
Compassion such a big one.
Victoria Volk 54:10
Yeah, take one instead of being filled with anger or resentment. It's it's not condoning No, not like dismissing what has been done to hurt you or anything like that. It is what this did for me and I you can speak to it for yourself as well after I share but it Ah that's why is why that person does this. That's why because we when we look back on the relationship and how we grew up, how we grew up is how our parents grew up grew up. Because this cycle which is why let's talk about grief, like we talk about the weather let's kind of address the elephant in the room. Yeah in our in our hearts in our His in our homes like this is our pandemic. I say yes, yes. demak? Yes, let's, let's address this thing. So that the cycle stops, so that we don't continue to teach and be ample of what it is. What is harming us in the law?
Patsy 55:24
Totally, totally. It. I mean, I'm not a parent. Yet God willing, someday, if that works out for me, I feel like every parent or new coming parents should go through this work truly like it is it is life changing. And it will change the relationships with the living you have today. Because as we talked about reaching that new perspective, or that new level of something shifted, and an energetic shift happened, when I was coming to accept my dad's death and his, his path to death, right, the way he passed and all that. When you reach a level of acceptance, for another person who's living, it immediately changes the dynamic within the relationship, and they don't even know how or why it changed. That's the beauty of this work, too. You're not forced to face someone unwillingly, who may not accept what you have to say, this is an internal process and such a gift to be able to sit and feel witnessed and heard and seen from a loving individual yourself. In this case, who I love so much. You call it a heart with ears. Yeah, right? finding someone who has a heart with yours. So to bear witness to your story, to what you're uncovering to your emotion to all of that, in a way that feels very safe. And love, yeah, loving. That's the key word that keeps coming where and what's really amazing to me, too. And obviously, we technology is so incredible that we could do this and be in different states, but still feel that presence of acceptance and reassurance that like, you know, your feelings are valid. And both of both, like, you know, polarities exist in the same moment, regardless of circumstances, or person or experience, right, like we can, we can honor and hold space for the way we were feeling. But also see how someone else's perspective would create a feeling within them and acknowledge that too. And so there's so much healing in that. And the magical part is you don't even have to have those conversations with the person. You're processing your grief around amazing. It's so incredible. It's so incredible. So thank you for exposing me to this. I just feel it's so powerful. And seven weeks is nothing in the realm of thing
Victoria Volk 58:07
Blew just flies, it flies, right.
Patsy 58:10
That was crazy. I look back and I'm like what I feel like we just got started. So yeah, I feel I feel like an inner peace as a result of the work.
Victoria Volk 58:20
And you have the tools in your backpack, right in your back pocket for the rest of my life now, right? Exactly the knowledge right to bring to other people to bring to other relationships to create ripples in your life. Right? That's exactly what this does this work creates ripples. When we do the work on ourselves. It creates ripples.
Patsy 58:45
It really does. Because that whole idea of resistance, right? Like, if you're resistant, resisting and engage, you know, like, say for example, like okay, I'm going to see my mom this weekend. And then there's resistance around that because you're already anticipating like how this is going to go, right?
Victoria Volk 59:04
Yeah
Patsy 59:05
You create more aches like they're there. You just create more resistance like nothing is running smoothly. You're like this is you know, just talking off the cuff. But anybody can relate to that where Yep, you create a story, the stories read a story, the story is playing out it's already written you can already see it going and sure enough, there you are having the argument in the kitchen again, whatever. If you show up to that weekend, just accepting and like knowing like, Okay, this is how it is like I've laughed more and I don't know if anybody's ever gonna see the backdrop but I'm here in Maine, where my family is this week, I just moved into a tiny cabin. I had been living in my mom and grandmother's home for the last week and a half and it's really interesting to witness bear in their relationship, status, shareholders and the resistance they both have but ultimately really want the same thing you know, So I brought a new level of acceptance to the situation, circumstance, you know, the circumstance and just the dynamic, knowing what I was walking into. I was just like, Alright, here we go, I have left more this week than I have felt frustrated.
Victoria Volk 1:00:14
And what do you think that does for creating connection?
Patsy 1:00:19
But the thing that everybody wants exactly? spontaneous
Victoria Volk 1:00:23
Yeah, you know, how can we connect with other people, when we got these residual stories already playing out in our minds of what's going to happen, how it's going to happen? What's going to be said, and we're just going to leave our spaces and be annoyed with each other in irritated? And where's the connection, then?
Patsy 1:00:39
There isn't there. And that's the beauty in it. You know, that is the beauty of it. So powerful.
Victoria Volk 1:00:49
So I want to we, I think we're like, this amazing conversation could go on for hours, I'm sure. But I do want to get to one question, what is the best piece of advice you ever received, when you were deep in your grief?
Patsy 1:01:13
To feel it, and to just remember that it's temporary, like it's, I almost started to embody it like, okay, a wave would wash over me, and I would allow it to come up and through me, right, like, I didn't resist, if I, if I if something struck me and brought me to tears, I like allowed myself to try it out. If something struck me and brought me to laughter, I would rate I would sort of like lean into it, knowing that it was sort of temporary, and it felt like I could go with the flow of the way it was actually I became the wave a little bit, as opposed to like, swimming against it, resisting it. That helped a lot. And also, we've talked about this a lot, because you are a heart with ears, this is the work that you do. If you have someone in your life that can be that for you, like you recognize that they have the capacity to hold space for you in that way, have that vulnerable conversation to ask them to be that in moments when you need it. Because sometimes you just need to be you just need a heart with your eyes, you just need to shout it out or cry it out, or have somebody sit with you in that pain. And that's not a job for everybody. And there's also I think a certain level of, well, there's certainly a level of deep vulnerability that comes with sharing a space like that with someone. So the importance of safety comes to mind, you know, like feeling like you can do that without being judged, right?
Victoria Volk 1:02:45
Which is the whole premise of grief recovery work. This method is a structured safe environment
Patsy 1:02:53
Incredible. Yeah, incredible.
Victoria Volk 1:02:56
And what do you think is a characteristic of someone who has, you know, if someone's sitting here listening to this, they're driving down the road? And they're like, thinking in their mind? Well, who could who was in my life? That would? would be that for me? Or could be that for me? What do you think is a characteristic of that person? I have something in mind, but I'm curious what your answer is.
Patsy 1:03:18
I can't wait to hear yours. First thing that comes to mind is that person, a person who is is championing you. Like for me, my friend Deb comes to mind and it's like, she will always fight for my most evolved self. So like in moments of doubt, so we're not talking necessarily about the pain of loss, but we're talking about Okay, making a decision or something and I'm doubting myself or I'm starting to, like lean toward, lean into, like programming I've received over time, there's this intimate level of like, she sees me in my, she sees the truth underneath, whatever I may be presenting to her. And so she she's going to hold me to that truth. She's not going to just accept what I'm saying for face value, or tell me what I want to hear necessarily. Right? Like to keep me safe or it's comfortable.
Victoria Volk 1:04:17
So it's the person that calls you on your bias.
Patsy 1:04:20
Yes, yes, exactly. Exactly. Um,
Victoria Volk 1:04:25
Also too I think we had talked earlier before but the one thing too i thought was that I picked up on that you said that I think is an important characteristic and this is your so it's not mine, but it's yours, but it's something I want to bring to attention for our listeners is that it's someone who asks you how can I be there for you? How do I like what does it look like for me to be there for like, do you need just need me to sit here and listen, do you need me to do you want my InSite like asks you, like they asked you what you need. And I think that was a very important characteristic that you brought to light on, on a relationship that you have in your life of someone who would be a good heart with yours for you.
Patsy 1:05:15
Absolutely. And there's a level of self awareness that they have right? within themselves, so
Victoria Volk 1:05:21
Awhoo, that's good, too. Like, they've maybe done some personal development work themselves. And, you know, like you said, sense of awareness.
Patsy 1:05:31
Sense of awareness, becauseit's like, you know, if I, if I call, and I think of this in reverse to, like, how have I been able to be that person for others in my life, but if the person is you, though, however, however, way the exchange unfolds, if I'm the one calling you, and I'm in tears, right? Sometimes I don't even know what I need. So that's one thing, but to have like, to you as the heart with yours, to have the awareness that those tears aren't about you. Right? Or like, I, sometimes I find myself in this dance, because so often, we do share experiences, all of our, our all of our experiences are individual, but there's a commonality or resonance in some of the life experiences that we have, right? As humans, so there can be a tendency within myself to want to share the experience I've had that may be similar, right? to yours. But in these I think specifically around processing grief, it's recognizing, again, what what's most helpful and asking that question, as opposed to projecting on to that person, like, Oh, I know exactly how you feel. Yes. You know, what I mean,
Victoria Volk 1:06:49
Which is what we tend to do in grief is we tend to compare losses and yeah, and try to create a connection, right? Where you may not feel a connection in that area of life, you know, right. Right. Right. So good, such a good conversation. Is there anything else that well, first of all, you are you have talked about your business, business transition? If someone is interested in reaching out to you based on something you shared, or can feel a connection to you in some way listening and hearing your grieving voice? Where can they find you a Patsy?
Patsy 1:07:35
Oh, good question. Um, I am rebuilding a business called and celebrate and I'm on Instagram over there @andcelebrate the word and spelled out, And the celebrate. And my website is coming soon. There's a it's exciting time because it's, it's in creation right now. Much of what I will be talking about through that platform really has a lot of key themes to what we talked about today. My vision is to create a platform that celebrates the human experience and all its messy, glorious, triumphant, not so shun sunshiny magical moments, you know, and to be sharing human human stories and expression of what it's like to live. And so you can find me over there. And then my email address is Patsy@andcelebrate.com
Victoria Volk 1:08:36
Wonderful. I absolutely cannot wait to see and celebrate, make its re nude debut. Thank you amazing just like you inside out some, because I have no doubt it is a direct expression of who you are. Beautiful inside and out. So thank you for being a friend. Thank you.
Patsy 1:09:00
Oh Thank you.
Victoria Volk 1:09:01
Thank you for being my first guest.
Patsy 1:09:05
I'm so honored. Thank you for having me.
Victoria Volk 1:09:08
Thank you for trusting in me to walk you through the grief recovery and to be there for you in that way and for sharing all with me that you have. Thank you for sharing your grieving voice with my listeners today. So thank you. Yes, you're welcome. And thank you for listening. We'll be back next week with another interview.
Patsy 1:09:35
Incredible, I can't wait to continue listening to the grieving voices as you host here on this platform.
Victoria Volk 1:09:41
Thank you so much, Patsy. From my heart to yours. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, please share it because Sharing is caring. And until next time, give and share compassion by being hurt with yours. And if you're hurting Know that what you're feeling is normal and natural. Much love my friend.