Grieving Voices

Phoebe Leona: Where Are They Now? | Magic in the Mess

August 22, 2023 Victoria V | Phoebe Leona Season 4 Episode 156
Phoebe Leona: Where Are They Now? | Magic in the Mess
Grieving Voices
More Info
Grieving Voices
Phoebe Leona: Where Are They Now? | Magic in the Mess
Aug 22, 2023 Season 4 Episode 156
Victoria V | Phoebe Leona

Send Victoria a text message!

This week, we catch up with the previous Grieving Voices guest, Phoebe Leona.

I had received a newsletter from Phoebe providing some updates that, I felt, would be a great episode to talk about the potential/impending loss of something she had built with love, sweat, tears, and probably plenty of finances, too.

Sometimes, to grow and evolve, we need to close one door so another may open. Little did I expect that as this episode goes live, I feel we could record a third episode - stay tuned...

Back to this episode; this is for you if you feel stuck in a mess and have difficulty feeling the magic of the situation and your experience. As Phoebe shares in this episode: "When it is meant for you, you cannot mess it up."

Be a fly on the wall of this conversation about growth, hard transitions, finding love again, and perhaps more importantly...finding yourself and the magic while in the mess. Or, as I like to say, the thick of the ick.





  • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
  • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.


Support the Show.

This episode is sponsored by Do Grief Differently™️, my twelve-week, one-on-one, in-person/online program for grievers who have suffered any type of loss to feel better. Click here to learn new tools, grief education, and the only evidence-based method for moving beyond the pain of grief.

Would you like to join the mission of Grieving Voices in normalizing grief and supporting hurting hearts everywhere? Become a supporter of the show HERE.

📣 Grieving Voices
Join Grieving Voices in supporting hurting hearts everywhere!
Starting at $3/month
Show Notes Transcript

Send Victoria a text message!

This week, we catch up with the previous Grieving Voices guest, Phoebe Leona.

I had received a newsletter from Phoebe providing some updates that, I felt, would be a great episode to talk about the potential/impending loss of something she had built with love, sweat, tears, and probably plenty of finances, too.

Sometimes, to grow and evolve, we need to close one door so another may open. Little did I expect that as this episode goes live, I feel we could record a third episode - stay tuned...

Back to this episode; this is for you if you feel stuck in a mess and have difficulty feeling the magic of the situation and your experience. As Phoebe shares in this episode: "When it is meant for you, you cannot mess it up."

Be a fly on the wall of this conversation about growth, hard transitions, finding love again, and perhaps more importantly...finding yourself and the magic while in the mess. Or, as I like to say, the thick of the ick.





  • National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
  • Crisis Text Line provides free, 24/7 support via text message. Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained Crisis Counselor

If you are struggling with grief due to any of the 40+ losses, free resources are available HERE.

Are you enjoying the podcast? Check out my bi-weekly newsletter, The Unleashed Letters.


Support the Show.

This episode is sponsored by Do Grief Differently™️, my twelve-week, one-on-one, in-person/online program for grievers who have suffered any type of loss to feel better. Click here to learn new tools, grief education, and the only evidence-based method for moving beyond the pain of grief.

Would you like to join the mission of Grieving Voices in normalizing grief and supporting hurting hearts everywhere? Become a supporter of the show HERE.

Victoria Volk: Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. I'm so happy that you've pushed play on this episode. And today is a where are they now episode. And I'm following up with my previous guest Phoebe Leona, where we originally had our episode. The first episode were recorded, went live on March twenty-ninth twenty twenty-two. It's episode ninety two. And it's titled, I'm only grieving Fridays. And it was all about her experience of losing her father and how that was the catalyst for all of the change that she described in that episode. And now we're back for Phoebe 3.0 because there's been a lot of change in transition and a new evolution to Phoebe's life that I came across because of her newsletter. If you don't know, when people become guests on my podcast, I often tried to keep up with them and whether that's on social media or their newsletter or I think a lot of my guests become friends. And so And I've always been the person that, like, loves to, where are they now? Right? Like, the eighties pop stars of the one-hit wonders. I've always looking up, like, wonder what happened to them, you know. So today is the I wonder what happened with Phoebe. So here she is ladies and gentlemen. TV, what brings you to the podcast? Actually, I asked you to come back on the podcast. So let's get that great. But I would love to have you share with me what has transpired since we last recorded.

Phoebe Leona: Oh, yeah. Well, first of all, thank you so much for inviting me back, Victoria. It's such a joy to be with you, and I was before we press record, we were thinking about when was it that we sat together. And I think also, since then, you came on my podcast, so that's where I was getting my dates confused. Where are they now? Where is Phoebe Leona now? Before, I think you said March twenty twenty-two. So my book did come out. We did talk a bit about that and how is about to be burzed out into the world. So the book was launched April fourth, twenty twenty two. So it's been officially out for more than a year now. And it's my little baby. It's out in the world doing its thing. I did a bit of a book tour. It was on many podcasts. I also created this live experience called the rating experience where I brought together because when I and I don't know if I talked about this that day, but when I was called to write the book, I knew it wasn't just going to be a book, I knew it was something that was multidimensional.

Phoebe Leona: So with the medium of having dance being a primary part of my life and also was part of the book too because I talk about how dance really saved me and was a huge healing modality for me as I was going through all of the trauma and all of the grief throughout my childhood and my adulthood when I was dealing with the loss of my father and my divorce. So I wanted to bring that element to life. So I created this thing called Radian Experience, where it was a book reading essentially, but I was also dancing and I also had a friend who's palette who brought some of the letters that I write to the emotions. She wrote she read them. Out as a poem as I danced, and we had a painter painting live behind me on a beautiful canvas and a sound healer. Creating a soundscape for everybody to be in that space with me those moments of my childhood, those moments of grief, and my adulthood. So that was a really powerful experience and we're playing around with what more we can do with that. What else has happened with dear radiant one, my little baby, was nominated for best spiritual memoir by own times. Just recently, which I'm very excited about. Yeah. Very excited about.

Phoebe Leona: Thank you. And like I said, I'm just letting it do its thing. And I did talk a bit about my company, NoMad, which was birth from all of that grief of twenty thirteen when I went through everything. I always let NoMad guide me and I follow the breadcrumbs to where what it wanted to do next. And that's how I feel with all of my creations, including Dear Radian one of, okay, I gave birth it. I put up my heart and soul into it. And now what does it want to become now that it's out into this world? So I'm sure there's going to be maybe another 4.0 version.

Victoria Volk: Guaranteed.

Phoebe Leona: That I have no idea. I have absolutely no idea what that will look like, but I'm that's why I love what I do because I just lean into that mystery of what it wants to it's a true co-creation. And I love having that space and that deep trust for the creation to just whisper to me or maybe shout at me if I'm not really listening. To say, okay, this is what needs to happen now. And yeah.

Victoria Volk: Okay. So because you brought up co creation and I hear a lot of intuitive vibes in what you're talking about. Can you share with people how you tapped into that personally and any advice that you would give to others to who may not be getting the message. And then what is that not getting the message play out like in real life. Right?

Phoebe Leona: Oh, I'm getting massive chills in my body. So this is a very good question, and I think we could dig deep into this. So intuition, everybody's born with us, this idea of intuition. We have these clear abilities. And clairvoyance is one that I think a lot of people know to be, you know, the mediums or the psychics and they have visions. And we don't necessarily need to tap into it and identify as a medium or a psychic. But we have these clear abilities, which means that we are able to sense the unseen world and have communication with our souls, desire, our guides, our angels, whatever you wanna identify with. I'm not going to label them for you. You can choose if you align with that or not. But there is some sort of sense. So when you just spoke to me, I got chills in my body. So this is a clearability of clear sentence.

Phoebe Leona: So my physical body is giving me or an emotional body as well was giving me signs like, oh, yes, lean into this. When you do meditations and you and you visualize, right, when somebody guides you through a visualization and you can actually see what your future could look like or where that scenario that person is guiding you to or maybe you just do it on your own. That is you tapping into that clairvoyance. So you can dive in deeper and do some research if this is a new idea too. But when we have these abilities to tapping to the unseen world. This is the tapping on the shoulder. Listen, this might be something here you. This is your yes. This is your no. This is that gut instinct. Right? We have even in our vocabulary of I just knew it in my gut. Right? Or you know

Victoria Volk: Spidey sense.

Phoebe Leona: Spidey sense. Right? We have this nomenclature for it in our worlds. And this is really us tapping into our intuition. Now my personal story with intuition was and I might have spoken about this when we sat down the last time I was super intuitive. I had this ability to sense the energy in my space changing that made me afraid to really use my intuition because what I thought was I was creating the scenarios. So my father being, you know, dealing with his PTSD, he would go into flashbacks, and I would actually sense the energy change when he was triggered. So before he physically acted it out in our worlds, in our reality that we were sharing, I felt it. And so when I felt that energy and then I saw it play out in my physical world, I thought, oh my god, I'm crazy, and this is a curse. So I share that because some people might not have had that dramatic story, but they might have had a conditioning. Right? A lot of times as children, we're being conditioned to not feel these intuitive spider senses, as you said.

Phoebe Leona: We might feel very emotional because we're in a situation that is unsafe, but our parents said, oh, that you shouldn't be acting out right now. You can't act your fears out or your anxiety out right now, so we had to clamp down on these emotions that are part of our intuition as well as children. So there is that looking at it as possibly that it was a curse or maybe it was just programmed out of you.

Phoebe Leona: And so I think it's really important to know that it's not a bad thing if you don't know how to tap into your intuition. This might just be part of your story. And so if you're curious to be more intuitive and lean into it, there are ways of getting there. And a lot of the work that I do with the somatic work, if that's a word that nobody knows out there, it's really just being in the body, it's being embodied. Being able to tap into your physical body, the sensations that I said, the emotions that are coming through, not just getting lost in your head because a lot of times in our head. It's, you know, not really truly in our reality. That's not really our intuition. The messages that come through intuition are usually down in our heart space. And these messages come through as a very like, whenever I feel them come through, it's just one word or a short phrase, and it's usually like a heartbeat or like a metronome, like, yes, yes, you got this, might feel like a mantra to me. It is that gut sense. Right? It is that just you feel it in your body. If it's all up in your head and it's, oh, like, the squirrel cut, like, the dog and the squirrel. Like, the dog is just, oh, scroll there. Scroll there. Right? If that's what your mind is doing or you're getting on cancer, we'll have all of these different thoughts. That's not usually your intuition. Right? That's you just kind of up there letting,

Victoria Volk: Anxiety.

Phoebe Leona: Anxiety. Yeah. Anxiety.

Victoria Volk: Stress,

Phoebe Leona: Ego, Fear, all of it run the show. So I feel that when we can start to really drop down into just listening not needing to know the answer, and that's what I think happens a lot is something feels uncomfortable. How do we fix it? Right? Let me look at all the things and let me write out the to do list and let me take a class or look at YouTube or Google it and find, go outside of myself. To find the answer. But when we really can just drop down, take a few breaths, understand again, maybe tap into your clear abilities if you know what they are or work on focusing on how to strengthen those. And listen to what's coming through, whether it is that visualization or whether it is that feeling in your body or whether it is maybe a sound, maybe there is an audio message that you receive or a sound, like sometimes I have ringing in my ears. So there are a lot of ways to listen to your intuition.

Victoria Volk: Repetitive numbers, signs, those two.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. Yeah. The Angel numbers I see Angel numbers all the time, like, the seven sevens are always in my world.

Victoria Volk: Actually, I had two podcast episodes, recent ones back to back that were the exact same time. Oh, both episodes. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Did I upload the wrong episode? Yeah.

Phoebe Leona: At the end on that today? Oh,

Victoria Volk: Oh,

Victoria Volk: So how did all of this play into the version of yourself that you're stepping into now?

Phoene Leona: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: I've closed a business. I know I know what that process is like and it's heart wrenching. Yeah. It's painfully. It's a painful awareness because you know how much blood sweat and tears you poured into something.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And I'll just say, from my own perspective, what I've come to know is that everything is just a stepping stone.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And I didn't fail in that business. You know, when I closed it, people I know people thought people even asked me, oh, we couldn't make it or whatever because where I live and what I was charging or what have you and a lot of ego thoughts I had and myself too, but really it was I had to close that door for something else to come in.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: And I wrote my book, and then I started another business that wasn't the right business. And I had a one chance off conversation with friend who I was working with, and she's like, you know, for this one business, for my website. And she's like, you wrote a book, didn't you, about grief? I'm like, yeah, why aren't you helping people in their grief? And I was like, Okay. Captain obvious. Good question. And so it was a question. You know, we can't see the label from inside the jar, and so that one conversation has landed me talking to you again for a second time. It's you know, so we have these moments in our lives that are truly transformative. Are what do they call those moments? What do they call it? A moment that changes everything.

Phoebe Leona: Like a pivotal.

Victoria Volk: Like a pivotal

Victoria Volk: Yeah. -- pivotal point.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: So what happened? It's changed. And how did that come to be?

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. Okay. I feel like I wanna go back again because I didn't fully answer your other question. So I wanna finish that, which will feed into that. And I also wanna bring other people up to speed because they didn't talk too much about that part of what shifted for me in terms of nomad. So in terms of the intuition, what you had asked me is, what would it look like if you don't listen to it? And that leads us into this question really.

Victoria Volk: Right.

Phoebe Leona: It's basically I like to think of it as this child Right? You're the mom or the father of a child saying, hey, like, just tapping on your shoulder. Like, hey, I need a little attention here. That's your intuition going, hey, this might not be the best thing to do or go for it or whatever. And if you're not listening to it, it gets louder and louder and louder until it's like full on temper tantrum. So in the external world, that looks like, oh, there's a challenge. Now we don't sometimes we go, okay, I'm ready to step into this challenge or I'm going to ignore the challenge. Right? We make our choices there. But if it's I don't wanna call it the wrong choice. But if it's the choice that our intuition is guiding us because it knows. Right? It's our higher self. It's our soul. It can see your life from a bird's eye view, and it kinda comes back down into this reality. And it's like, oh, that's a good move. Oh, that's not a good move. Right? So it's understanding, learning how to trust it. And so that little child that's tugging on you is going, go this direction. Go that direction. Right? Because you can see that bird's eye view. But if you don't listen to it, yes, more challenges, more obstacles come up, and it turns into that temper tantrum.

Phoebe Leona: So where I am with NoMad, that's the company that I started because of the year of grief. I wanted to have power back because in that year, January, my father died. March, my husband of fifteen years, said, I wanna end our marriage. That started the domino effect of losing my home, my dog, my physical health was at stake because of all the stress. And then the one thing that was still there that I had was my job that wasn't filling my soul at all. And it was a choice that I had made because of these other two people that were no longer in my life And so that was the one thing that I said, I wanna have control over this. I want to live in alignment with my soul's purpose, which was to really create a space for people to have a sense of belonging and purpose. And what are the two things that I did at the time while I hot yoga, that was the modality, and I wanted to travel more. So we started NoMad from this place of wanting to feel empowered in my life again and have these other aspects of myself be, you know, fueled again. So I started a retreat-based business. That's what NoMad was.

Phoebe Leona: And as I said at the very beginning with Dear Radiant, why don't I just kind of when I create something, I follow the breadcrumbs. So Nomad has been not just a retreat based business where I taught yoga was the modality, but it's evolved into another modality that I created, a somatic practice called Movement one o nine, that was one of the bread crumbs. It turned into local community events where we had two hundred people at the summer solstice bring coming together in my Hudson Valley community here in New York, it turned into me leading yoga teacher trainings. It also turned into having to go online when we've all went into lockdown and figuring that part of the world out. So it evbed and flowed and morphed and shape-shifted in so many different ways. And I just leaned in and they said, okay, what do you wanna do now, baby? Now when I started it, the other aspect that I wanted in that part was I just had this vision that it was going to be with my partner. Like, didn't have a partner. But I said, if you build it, he will come.

Phoebe Leona: And he did it. I mean, I had a couple of relationships that it could have potentially turned into that, but they all fell apart. Because I was still going through my own grief am I, you know, recovering from my trauma. So a lot of those relationships as beautiful as they were, they triggered a lot, and they got me to evolve further by leaving them and then doing the inner work.

Phoebe Leona: So here I am almost ten years, I guess it's we'll be celebrating nine years this year of NoMad, still no partner, letting it kind of morph into things, but I've also taken all these other branches, like Movement one o nine, like my book, Dear Radiant One, which can fit under the umbrella of NoMad, but I was noticing that my community was under the umbrella of just NoMad was getting smaller and smaller. And I just could've, like, you know, like, square peg triangle or whatever that scene is, a square peg, round hole, whatever. I was just like, oh, no. Just oh, this is all, NoMad. But now I think that there's something within what I've created there and I don't quite know what it is yet. I don't know if it's a book.
I don't know if it's Movement one o nine. It might be a combination of both. It might be something completely new. I said in the I think I said in the email that you read. I'm sort of mushy. I'm in the chrysalis. So I'm just letting it morph into what it wants to become right now. But I am also grieving. Right? Here we are talking about our grieving hearts.
I'm grieving because it is my baby. I put my hot blood, sweat, love, heart, soul, tears into it. And I'm kind of like, was that a waste of time? And it isn't. Yeah. Absolutely not. And I really resonate with what you were saying about other people saying, you didn't make it or you failed. And I don't feel that. I feel I feel frustrated because I want Nomad to I want I see no I always see my creations as little babies. I'm like, I want my baby to see this world and really be the vision that we had together. So I'm letting go of that idea of NoMad might not get to do the things that we had envisioned together. So yeah. I'm hearing I'm getting a little teary. I didn't show up. But I do have a deep sense of trust that something else is being born, and I just I have absolutely no idea what it is. And I have a feeling just sitting here talking to you right now, Victoria, that magic is happening.

Victoria Volk: I got full body goosebumps like I if you could see my chicken zips right now.

Phoebe Leona: You're chicken. I love it. Yeah. I mean, it might just be and I invite this for anybody out there listening. It might just be that you would you just spark something within me hearing your words. That an idea will come out whether it's just I walk away from that and go, oh, actually, there's some insight that I hadn't seen yet. You're a mirror for me. It might be that you and I are gonna get off of this and go, oh, wait, what about this and this and this and we collaborate or you connect me with somebody or there might be somebody listening here and go don't let Nomad, go to bed. I love what you're doing. Did they reach out to me or somebody else, you know, is inspired by our conversation and they go make a big life shift? Right? It doesn't have to be related directly to me. It might be that somebody out there listening is going, oh, I'm going to listen to my intuition and yes, I need to leave that romantic relationship or that job or maybe it's time for me to take the leap and make that new step into what I most desire. So who knows what universe is doing right now as you and I are speaking.

Victori Volk: We're cocreating magic.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. We're cocreating magic right now, and the magic happens within the grief. Mhmm. It has to,

Victoria Volk: and I think because of it.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. Yeah. I just got chills again.

Victoria Volk: Let's just talk this out then.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: So what was the dream or is the dream that you had for so long? When you started NoMad?

Phoebe Leona: It was it was providing a space for people who were making transitions in their life. Because I had just gone through and was still going through it. Right? That year of grief, that year of great loss, that year of stepping into the unknown. And as I was doing it, a lot of people were applauding me saying, wow, you made a huge leap.

Phoebe Leona: And I didn't see it as that. I saw it as, wow, I just got jot down. And I'm taking this one little thing where I might have some power and I was claiming it back. And I didn't see myself as any sort of hero and that I was just trying to survive, but people were applauding me in that sense of wow, I wish I could do something like that. And I thought, you can, why not? You know, it came sick in nature to me, but I also know that that came from a lot of, you know, I know you had a similar childhood like having to deal with so much chaos. Chaos. Exactly that you don't know that you didn't know you don't realize you had a choice. Right? It's just like, yeah. This is just what my phase. You just keep going and roll with the punches. So when I started to see that something that came somewhat second nature to me doesn't come for other people, I thought, well, what if I provide a space what if I take them out of their ordinary life, bring them to a retreats, yes, they get to see somewhere beautiful and you know, have beautiful food and make connections and see parts of the world that maybe they never had seen before, but also see parts of themselves that they had never seen before and tap into this new not a new version I shouldn't say that, but this version of themselves that they hadn't really tapped into in this reality or maybe this time and space. Right? Maybe they knew that was a part of them and they lost it along the way. But tap back into that and say you do have the power. If you're in a toxic relationship, you have the power to leave it. If you are not living in alignment with your soul's purse purpose. You can leave the job or you can make a big move, you know, physically across the world or whatever it is. It might also be really small and subtle but it changes your whole internal landscape. So that was the vision. And like I said, when you and I say this a lot of my teaching when you know your why, when you're so aligned with your purpose. The Whats? Doesn't matter. So, yeah, use the what of the retreats, but the "why" that creating space for people to have that greater sense of belonging so that they could make those transitions in their life was my why and has it has been my heartbeat these whole years since then. And so, yeah, the what is wants to be something new right now, and don't know what that is.

Victoria Volk: You missed a question though.

Phoebe Leona: How how how how in terms of what how what

Victoria Volk: How do you envision it looking?

Phoebe Leona: Well, I think that's where maybe that's a good thing or maybe it's a bad thing. I don't have, like, specific visions of how I want it to look. I envision it as this is why I'm showing up in the world. And I trust that universal provide the how and the what. And maybe that is my downfall. And maybe you're giving me some insight as to get clear focus, baby?

Victoria Volk: Because this is the thing. It's like we're always co-creating or always manifesting, but the universe doesn't know what to manifest or co-create or bring to you. Yes. You're not clear on the how.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. Yeah. Story of my life, I think, Victoria.

Victoria Volk: Well, here's the thing. So, like, I mean, I'm not intending to turn this into, like, some sort of, like, coaching session or anything.

Phoebe Leona: No. I love I get pre therapy today?

Victoria Volk: Here's the things. When I think of you and when I think about everything that you've talked about and shared with me, in the audience, I feel like you're a very grounding presence for people. Right? So, like, when people are around you and you have these retreats, feel like you are very grounding for them.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: But Phoebe grounded, how do you fly? Who encourages you and who is the person or what is it, what elements in your life are not, some people need accountability Some people just need a cheerleader. Some people need someone to challenge them. So I think so often too, like, especially helpers they have a hard time asking for help. Mhmm. And so am I am I nailing

Phoebe Leona: Oh, for sure.

Phoebe Leona: Oh, yeah. We got this. Yeah. And I mean, I know you want there was an aspect that you and I talked before, we press record that we're gonna go to right now is this idea of love in my life. And That has been a huge game changer for me because, yes, going through so much chaos in my childhood alone, I did not know how to ask for help. And going through it again in twenty thirteen, it was the universe going, you need to ask for help Phoebe. And I did. I had to lean in to my family. I had to lean in to some people even strangers because I went to live in Costa Rica for a period of time and didn't fluently speak Spanish, so I had to rely on strangers to help me. So it's been a lesson the last nine years of ass asking for help, but still what you just saw, what you just reflected back of the ground in this, that was me going, I need to survive. I need to be really grounded here and not only because I'm a helper, like you said, and on hold space for other people, but I need to provide that for myself. And it was a little bit of survival mode. Right? Or a lot of survival mode. It was just holding on for dear life of okay. Gotta get my shit together.

Victoria Volk: Sols. Can I ask you? Yeah. They don't mean to interject, but I just because so, like, it feels like because I know for me too, like, I had this grip or this hold. Right? On something, like, this is my identity. Right? Like, this is my identity. This is who I am. This is, you know, what who am I without this?

Phoebe Leona: Yes.

Victoria Volk: Do you feel like the only way to find out if that is where you want to continue to go as if just letting it go, like, backing away for a time.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. I'm I think I'm in that, that's why I'm in the chrysalis because it's the that's that mushy part. Right? When you're in the crystal, well, from the little caterpillars in the chrysalis. Maybe we're in the chrysalis too right now, who knows? But when we're physically in that idea of the chrysalis, you become mushy. Right? You so you have to have that deep surrender, but at some point, right, when it's making that shift to become the butterfly, there is the resistance. Mhmm. Like, it has to press out to create the wings. So there is this play between the deep surrender and that resistance of becoming the something new. And that's really where I'm at right now of letting go of that identity. No man was my identity. For, you know, almost nine years now. And it is letting that go but there's a there has to be a bit of resistance of like, okay. Well, how do you wanna see the next vision, right, and create that? And so that is, I'm not taking it as a cop out, but I am they I'm figuring out what the how is

Victoria Volk: The "How" that's where we came back to is the "how".

Phoebe Leona: Is the how because I'm kind of like, well, I was this for, you know, nine years. That's all I knew to a certain extent because I was so had the death grip. Like, of Nomad and even though it's letting it up and flow, but there was this has to survive because it was me proving to the world that I can do this I survived that horrible year and look what came from it, and I'm gonna use it. And you universe is telling me, like, you're good. You're so alive. You got this. You don't have to just be in survival note mode now. You can actually thrive and spread your wings and fly. But I'm not quite there yet because I'm thinking, well, what is that gonna look like? And I guess maybe I'll find out because the butterfly is not looking, maybe it is, and the, like, wings, like, oh, look at those colors. I'm not sure. Bright and then it just flies and it's like, oh, okay. I'm crying. So I'm in that exploring process and there's a little bit of playing with ideas, but also not being attached to them right now and seeing what what comes out of it. But I do wanna answer a little bit more, go a little deeper into this idea of the partner because I did have this vision of my partner is going to come in. But I had somewhat rules and regulation of what he was going to look like and be like because he was going to play a large role in my business, in my vision of them. And it's really interesting because I've been completely single for six years now. Here I am doing my thing. I'm writing a book. I'm doing no mood or a pandemic. I'm still standing. And there were just all these challenges that came. Right? Everybody, I'm not saying I'm not doing a woe's knee. Everybody has been gone through letting go of the old normal, right, going into that lockdown. There was a deep sense of grief during that period and letting go of your old identities, get letting go of old relationships, jobs, whatever. So I was in that at that time too and trying to figure out what NoMad wanted to be. And like I said, though, that was really when I was doing the square peg round hole and figuring out, well, let's try to do online. You know, programs or membership or, you know, one on ones. And I was just, like, figuring out what it wasn't. It just didn't translate in the way of really being in person with people. And so, you know, the finances were not coming in, I was not receiving the abundance that made it not only thriving but not sustainable. I invested a lot in my book. You know, I did a hybrid publishing, which I am grateful for. I have really love the team of Grace Point, but it was a huge investment that I probably didn't have, but I just going, it's gonna pay off. It's gonna pay off. And because I believe in myself and I even this morning, I was crying about that, my eyes are probably still a little puffy. And here I am about the the brink of letting go of my business and possibly declaring bankruptcy from putting my heart and soul in finances into it and steps in literally out of nowhere this man who just I met him and he's my person. Like, there's no doubt about it. And it's it's really quite beautiful how it happened because it somebody matched us up who I've known for twenty years and she's known him his entire life since she was five years old. And just out of the blue said, hey, you two should meet. And it's really quite beautiful.

Phoebe Leona: So I think that I did manifest the how of Nomad, but it also wants to become something completely new and different. And so maybe he's stepping in because he does have a lot of similarities in terms of strengths that I don't have that could really be a beautiful combination of what I envisioned originally. He even came to me with this vision that I didn't put into his head. He said, I think we should do retreats together down the line. We need to do this. So it might turn into Nomad 2.0 after we reestablish our personal relationship and build that business or it might be that we need to co-create something completely new together. I'm not sure yet. And this is the first time I'm, like, publicly talking about this.

Victoria Volk: Well, I got my chicken zits again when you were talking about it. So it feels like truth to me.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of wild. So

Victoria Volk: Is that crazy? I mean, just sit just for a moment. Like, just I mean, we don't do this enough. Like, just really reflect back. Like, life is crazy. Like, you just cannot anticipate the amazingness that can happen. Right? We don't It's like you will you think when you're in the thick of the icky? The thick of the neck. And you're in the thick of the neck. You can't even fathom that there can be brighter days ahead. Yeah. You know, I had a client, one of my first clients, actually, after they became certified as a grief specialist, his life has just exploded. I worked with him for a time. He went through grief recovery with me and stuff. And, you know, at the time, like, his he was struggling in relationships and trying to get his business going and he's a designer. He does -- Mhmm.

Victoria Volk: Now he's into purses. He designs purses. Ended up on the red carpet. He's, like, on the own network, the Detroit oh, love in Detroit or something like that? Remember the show. It's a reality show. Like, it's just crazy. How his life has just exploded. And he said in a post, he said something to the effect of, imagine living each day. You think today is the best day. But imagine if even tomorrow is better. Like, you have no idea. Yeah. Like live like tomorrow is gonna be even better.

Phoebe Leona: I love that. I'm I think this episode is called full-bodied chills.

Victoria Volk: Oh, yeah. That's good.

Phoebe Leona: Because I just kept getting chills as you're speaking about this.

Victoria Volk: Okay. Well, there is a true crime podcast called Full Body Chills.

Phoebe Leona: Okay.

Phoebe Leona: You might have to call you know what? Yeah.

Phoebe Leona: Play around with that because you and I just keep balancing our what did you call chicken zips? Chicken zips.

Victoria Volk Yeah. Chicken zips of truth.

Phoebe Leona: Oh, sure.

Victoria Volk: People would be like, chicken zips of truth. Why? I gotta listen to that one. Yeah. Maybe that's a go.

Phoebe Leona: There we go. That'll stop them in their tracks.

Victoria Volk: So what I hear is that you are very curious and excited about not knowing what's to come in a way. Yeah. And yet surrendering to the how and just letting it unfold. But yet, at the same time, this is where I think, you know, you are a very grown in presence and maybe this gentleman that it's come into your life, like who's kind of been under your nose. Right? Like, because he was with the he was he's a friend of a friend. Mhmm. Had you met him before?

Phoebe Leona: No. Never lived with me. We have so she was a Pilates client of mine here twenty years ago, and I knew her socially too. She even came to my wedding. So I had been to a couple of her parties, and so we have looked back and said, were you at that party? Were you at the upper end? We don't quite know yet because of this so long ago. But, yes, very much under under each other's nose. But we weren't ready yet. And that's something that I wanna speak into too is 

Victoria Volk: Yes. Please.

Phoebe Leona: When when you are ready, the universe makes it so clear and says, get this is it. This is you're ready now. Right? Here you go. Like, your client. Your client had to go through all of that grief and he was trying, he was showing up and doing his work. Like, ugh. And then all of a sudden, it just clicked. And now his purses on red carpets. And I swear I truly believe in that. And I've I have seen that in my own personal life. I've seen that evidence in the external world and everybody else in other people's lives that when it's meant to be for you, you cannot mess it up. It is just there. And that's how I felt for this relationship. It was just we were not ready for each other and we've had many conversations because he's done a lot of work on himself if he's done, you know, he's a life coaches while he wrote a book too. And it's even funny when we see that our books, our covers, our same coloring, like, same kind of branding, very similar format. He shares a lot of his own childhood trauma and, yeah, maybe a guest for you, by the way. But yeah.

Phoebe Leona: So it's just so funny because we're laughing at each other. Like, we've been walking side by side but just weren't we weren't ready for each other yet. We weren't ready for the relationship that we both want wanted for so many years, but we weren't emotionally ready for it yet. We had to recover through the trauma to a certain extent and our own grief so that we could be ready. Right? He if I had met him six years ago when I had my last relationship, he would have been triggering all my traumas right and left, and I would have said goodbye, just like I did to the other two, man. And so I had to do this in our work for it to show up. And I say that because it doesn't have to be a romantic relationship. It's whatever you desire right now. It will show up when you have to do the work, though. That kinda like, it's that balance of the doing and the being. Right? Because I think that in our world, we get too much in one direction. It's the very western world of just do do do and have the strategy and check the things off the list. And, yeah, if you hustle and hustle, I played that game for so long and so many things didn't happen in that world for me because I wasn't allowing there that to be that surrender into that being. But on the flip side of that, if we're just, you know, love attraction, I believe in it. I truly believe in it. But if you just do that and kinda lean back and not do any of the work, the thing isn't really going to be truly yours. I mean, you might see it but if you're not actually showing up and doing the inner work, going through your grief, going through recovering from your trauma, whatever it is that's your karma and your dharma. Right? Karma is the lessons we enter into this world and the dharma as you shifted into your purpose. If you're not actually playing with those two, yeah, those things might come on your radar and you might not see really truly see them or they might just float on by because they're not you're not aligned with them yet. So it is that play of the doing and the being?

Victoria Volk: You said something, and I'm gonna say, I'm I had a client, she asked me, Everyone else says you have to do the work. I'd get so annoyed when I'd hear that. Do the work. You gotta do the work. Well, what's the work? And after she went through a group recovery with me, she's like, I get it now. This is the work. Like, this is the work. So in your mind, what is the work?

Phoebe Leona: That's a good question. For me, it's awareness. I really truly believe awareness is the transformation. Now awareness can look different for people. So awareness might be that you need to be aware of your three d reality? Like, what is actually physically happening in your relationship? Or what is happening in your bank account? Or what is happening in this toxic situation at your job? Right? But also, it's awareness of what's happening in your mind, what's happening in your physical body. How can you listen again to the spidey sense. Right? When you're in those external relationships with the world and your body's going, uh-uh, right, you have to bring your awareness to that so that you tap into that intuition. That's really what I see the work is just being able to listen So it's kind of funny that to do the work is actually sitting back and listening. That's step one is that listening and the awareness, but then there is the, okay, now I need to take action from that place. Right? So maybe I do need to get a job that's going to help you pay the bills or maybe I do need to leave that relationship or maybe we need to go see a relationship therapist. Or whatever it is, it's actually taking the action and doing the work physically doing the work. And then there is the surrender., of okay, letting go and saying this isn't working or I deeply trust that it is working, but I don't see that. Evidence yet. Right? So that's level three, step three of the work. I'm sure there are others, but those are the three that I feel are necessary in everything as I just talking off the cuff.

Victoria Volk: I love it.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: I love it. I love this conversation. And I wanna give you an opportunity. To share anything else that you would like to share?

Phoebe Leona: Let me think. I feel we should yeah. Let's talk a little bit more about grief because that is your podcast. Mhmm. And to know if somebody is out there right now who is grieving a relationship or grieving possibly the loss of their own business or whoever they are right now to allow yourself to simply be in that chrysalis. Allow yourself to get mushy. Allow yourself to I love what you at you pressed me to do is imagine the how or the what or the whatever it is that drives you. Right? It could be the how, it could be the why, it could be the what. But whatever it is that's gonna just be your heartbeat for a little while. Right? If you're in that grief space and you don't know what is to come, find some sort of heartbeat for you that's gonna get you up every morning and really build a relationship with physical support in your life Right? It might be one person, it might be a community, but then also what has really been a huge piece for me is trusting the divine, the universe, God, guides, angels. Whatever it is that you resonate with whatever word resonates with you and energy that resonates with you in that end unseen world because there is and energy. There are many energies around us that we don't see and maybe not feel, but they are here and they are on our side and they are flying high above us, seeing a bird's eye view. And I was in a session, if I don't mind if you don't mind me sharing really quickly I was in a, like, a call with some a group yesterday, and you probably have heard this. And I feel like, actually, now I'm saying that you might have even spoken about it, but the idea of the two footprints, two sets of footprints talking to God and saying God, why weren't you there for me? There were times that I only saw one footprint and I was walking in a long loan, and God said that was because I was carrying you.

Victoria Volk: It's a footprints in the sand. It's actually

Phoebe Leona: Footprints in the sand. Yeah. And I just wanna remind everybody because that's something that I needed to remember for myself is when we're going through those moments of grief. There is someone carrying us even in those deepest darkest moments, in those mushy moments, in those messy moments. There is something here for us and to just deeply trust and find a way to build that relationship to trust again.

Victoria Volk: And someone is caring. Mhmm. And I think that's what a lot of people forget. It's like there are people that care you just have to allow yourself to be cared for.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, that's a hard one for us, helpers.

Victoria Volk: True. Yeah. It is. What a beautiful way to tie up this episode, I think. Where can people find you now if they'd like to reach out to you and connect with you?

Phoebe leona: That is an interesting question, Victoria. I'm not sure where I'm going. Social media, I'll just say first of all, social media I'm on Instagram it's my name and Facebook. And then I do have my website, so I would say right now, they could go to that's where you can generally see what I'm physically doing in the world. Then I have my and Movement 109. Those are also websites, but they're all linked together. Who knows if they'll be there in a couple of months? Maybe they got, you know, floated away. Maybe they're coming back in a bigger way. We don't know yet. But if you find my name Phoebe Leona, you'll find what's happening now. And I think that's a great way to, like, What is that girl doing? Let's see.

Victoria Volk: We might have a Where are they now? Three. Yeah. Maybe in a year.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. Yeah. And I just wanna acknowledge you too because, you know, what you just said of being cared for is you did respond to that it was, you know, somewhat desperate email of, like, I don't know what's happening guys. Let's see. And you were one of, you know, a few that responded immediately and I saw that you cared, and I know that you care so deeply for the people that you help. And the listeners that you show up for. So I just I wanna take a moment to acknowledge that. So thank you.

Victoria Volk: Thank you. Sometimes I need that reminder too, and I'm looking at her clothes. Yeah. Yeah. Since this is my labor of love, For sure.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah.

Victoria Volk: But it's been a great joy. And that's why I continue doing it. You know, it doesn't put food on my table, but it fills my heart. It's my soul food.

Phoebe Leona: Mhmm. Exactly.

Victoria Volk: Yeah. Find your soul food people. Find your soul food.

Phoebe Leona: Yes.

Victoria Volk: Alright. Well, thank you so much for joining me again. On kind of short notice, like, this was like, hey, wanna come back? Yeah. Let's do it. Alright. I love that.

Phoebe Leona: You know, we had to do it while it was still mushy because, yeah, it wouldn't have been that exciting if I was. Everything's fine now. You know, hindsight. 

Victoria Volk: I mean, that's the beautiful thing behind you. Right? But when you're in the thick of the ick. Right? The thick of the ick. And it's not it it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be this negative bad energy. Right? That we like, this drudge of it certainly, it doesn't feel good. Yeah. But with for all the reasons that you said, it's like lean into the awareness. How is this making me feel? What do I wanna see for myself in the future? What do I want for my life? Yeah. You know, these deeper questions that we are so afraid to ask ourselves Yeah. You know, one of my favorite segments on Saturday Night Live was deep thoughts by Jack Handy.

Phoebe Leona: Oh, yeah.

Victoria Volk: I mean, I was, like, ten, eleven, twelve, you know. Oh, wow. Because I'm aging myself now. This is when Saturday nightlife was, like, really good. But Yeah. But yeah.
Will Ferrell, deep thoughts by Jack Handy.

Phoebe Leona: Was it I don't think it was Will Ferrell. It was before Will Ferrell's time. It was because I actually met him in a certain week already. No. It was before Will Farrell.
It was oh my god. I know who it is, but he's not in my brain right now.

Victoria Volk: I thought it was the same guy that was played Bob Ross.

Phoebe Leona: It was Al Franklin.

Victoria Volk: Oh, yeah. Are you sure?

Phoebe Leona: Now that I said, and I'm afraid I am wrong, but hold on, Okay. We're good we're gonna fact-check.

Victoria Volk: I'm you know, I have a saying, like, with my friends. I'm like, I'm gonna get a t-shirt that says, Google that shit.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. I think it was before Will Ferrell's time. And I do feel I see his face. And Al Franklin was on Saturday Night Live? Yes. 

Victoria Volk: Phil Hartman. 

Phoebe Leona: Phil Hartman. What's? Okay we both we both lost

Victoria Volk: Wait. No. Deep okay. Well, Jack Handy was an actual person. Learn something new today.

Phoebe Leona: That makes sense.

Phoebe Leona: Yeah. Yeah.

Phoebe Leona: So they made affirmations before is, like, a big thing in our world at which I thought those.

Victoria Volk: Okay. It looks like I have to do some writing.

Phoebe Leona: You're gonna have to fact-check and do a follow-up for the listeners here.

Victoria Volk: I see a connection between Phil Hartman and that's segment, but I can't like, I would have to do some reading. Yeah. Anyway, I will find it. Anyway, I digress. Have a beautiful rest of your day, and listeners, thank you for tuning in. And I hope this episode was helpful. And if it was, I hope you share it or leave a review, five stars if you feel so inclined. And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life, much love.